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polski-g

The DOW should (and does) have ability to do anything and everything that Congress has said they can do.

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Congress is not the British parliament. There is no congressional sovereignty.

The US is a constitutional republic, it does not have a system where anything Congress decides is law.

> The US is a constitutional republic, it does not have a system where anything Congress decides is law.

Really now? Then why does it say in the Constitution that it was created to pass laws?

Your constitution literally has limits on what sort of laws congress can pass, i.e. "congress shall make now law..."

Yes, a very small list of NOs. Everything else goes.

Huge list of "No"'s. The "No"'s are a core part of the American system, whereas the absence of "No"'s is a core part of the British system.

So, for example, if Congress says the military can require the entire domestic population to be Catholic and kill anyone who isn't... ?

That's not how it works.

It actually is, and this is why there are separate judicial, executive and legislative branches to put those checks and balances on each other instead.

Your argument is that if Congress passes a law that says the military can summarily execute non-Catholics, the military should have the ability to do that, i.e. the courts or the public shouldn't stop them?

> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

> No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

Example chosen specifically for its unambiguous unconstitutionality.

No, not at all. How did you get "the courts shouldn't stop them" from "that's why there's a separate judicial branch to impose the checks and balances"??? That's literally the opposite of what I said.

> The DOW should (and does) have ability to do anything and everything that Congress has said they can do.

> Me: That's not how it works.

> You: It actually is

Moreover, regardless of what the courts do, the military still shouldn't execute a law like that, because they too have the ability to refuse to violate the constitution even if Congress tells them to.

I chose to read the comment charitably. The natural understanding of "everything X says they can do" is limited by external restrictions on what X is supposed to be able to authorize.

That reading would make it a meaningless tautology. They're allowed to do anything they're allowed to do.

Which seems especially unfavorable in context, since "the ability to perform mass surveillance on American citizens" is naturally the sort of thing they ought not be allowed to do.

Congress cannot do anything the Supreme Court says they cannot do

Congress can do that, can't it? Why can't it? It could declare all competing religions as terrorist organisations.

Obviously it'd be immoral, unorthadox and impractical but I expect Congress has a long history of promoting and stamping out ideologies and they can do it. What little I know about the civil rights era springs to mind.

Legally, Congress cannot do that, as long as it is "respecting" some religion. It's true that the US Constitution is more used as an excuse than upheld, but at least the language is pretty plain.

In theory. The issue is we've seen exactly what happens in a Congress v. constitution showdown once the Congresspersons put their collective feet down. Congress eventually redefines the law in a way that favours them. Plain language won't stop them if they get serious; they aren't supposed to be regulating the US economy the way they do either and a lot of stuff the military-industrial complex does looks like it should be unconstitutional (like the spying and the secret courts).

On the one hand there is a clear and comforting consensus in the US that they aren't going to force religious mores on anyone. So I don't see how the Congress could or would try. But if we ever end up in a situation where the US Congress decides it wants to go straight Catholic I really don't see how it would fail. They've got far too much power and they'll eventually rotate in a compliant judiciary and then redefine what words mean so they can do it.

It is a bit difficult when dealing with such an out-there scenario, but if Congress decides the US military should do something wild then eventually the military is going to do it. The realistic protection is that by virtue of good system design there isn't a plausible scenario where Congress would want to impose Catholicism on the US population by force.

I don't disagree.

However, I do think there is an expectation in Americans' minds that Congress is governed by the Constitution, and believing makes it so. Mostly.

The fact that Congress is currently abdicating its responsibility does not mean that it is actually powerless. Technically, Congress has tremendous powers if it chooses to wield it. SCOTUS can try to rule a law is unconstitutional but Congress can impeach and remove justices at any time. Of course, we hope Congress members will pay the price when it comes time for reelection but at the time of this decision, as long as they can somehow remain united, Congress reigns supreme.

> Congress can impeach and remove justices at any time.

The impeachment process requires a majority of the House and two thirds of the Senate, and then any replacement would have to be nominated by the President rather than Congress. Meanwhile the existing decision stands, and even the dissenting Supreme Court Justices (if there were any) should follow it as a result of stare decisis, and might even be inclined to because removing their colleagues under those circumstances could make them uneasy.

The passed a law directing the military to round-up and arrest every japanese in the US and hold them indefinetely, and the military did so.

The military will kill anyone instructed to kill. Especially if it is in the body of a law passed by Congress.

Do you think in the military you can just be like “Yeah, I don’t feel it today, I’m going to take s sick day”?

> Do you think in the military you can just be like “Yeah, I don’t feel it today, I’m going to take s sick day”?

What do you think happens if they refuse to do it?

Either nothing, or if they get sued or prosecuted for not doing it then they get brought in front of a court, and a judge who is doing their job would say that they were right not to do it.

> What do you think happens if they refuse to do it?

In war time they can be shot on the spot for disobeying orders.

> Either nothing, or if they get sued or prosecuted for not doing it then they get brought in front of a court, and a judge who is doing their job would say that they were right not to do it.

I think you confuse the military with corporate environments. Worst thing that can happen in the private sector is that you get fired.

In the military you can spend the rest of your life in prison if “you did not feel like obeying orders”. The military is built ob discipline and followimg orders, not Gen Z mood swings.

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