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Comment by plantain | Hacker News Reader

Every time I have been in one of these "naturally ventilated" facilities designed to "not need AC" due to "passive cooling", they've been uncomfortably hot.

It just feels like industrial scale gas-lighting, and no one in charge can admit it doesn't work afterwards because too much was spent on it.

Is stacking solar on the roof and AC's inside really so uneconomical?

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It doesn't have to be all-or-nothing. Too many buildings are build with complete neglect of the environment, with huge swathes of glass facing the sun. Then we have huge chillers try to compete and bring down the temperature. A little consideration goes a long way.

As someone who grew up with AC, I was one time in Brazil and got stuck in a place without AC. Needless to say the first few nights was hell. I just couldn't follow asleep. However after few days, my body just adjust to the local temperature, and really enjoyed it. In fact, going into mall with AC just feels too cold for me then. Of course there is a limit to what our body can endure, but there is something to be said about exposing and adapting our body to the natural elements instead of just adjusting the environment to make what is comfortable to our body.

There's certainly a level of acclimation but if it were truly as enjoyable people wouldn't bother with cooling/heating buildings except in the most hostile environments.

I live in a place with very little need for heating and air conditioning. If I don't do anything, indoor temperatures vary between 17°C and 27°C around the year. I've noticed that I prefer 24–25°C during the day in the summer and 21–22°C in the winter, and a bit less when I'm sleeping.

When I travel around the US, most places are too cold for my taste. Conference rooms are the worst, as I can't adjust the temperature myself and I often spend hours in them without much physical activity. I guess many Americans don't acclimatize to warmer temperatures, because their summers are uncomfortably hot.

And when I return from long hikes high up in the mountains, even that 17°C feels too hot for sleeping for a few days.

> I guess many Americans don't acclimatize to warmer temperatures, because their summers are uncomfortably hot.

Yeah. It's very weird/funny hearing how 100 F is almost death to them, when it's really not that bad. Most people where I'm from are practicing sports at 100 F.

This is so humidity dependent though, so it's probably more useful to speak in terms of the heat index.

I didn't mind 100F too much when I lived in Salt Lake; it was hot but that's what drinking lots of water was for. In Pittsburgh, 93F and higher make me want to curl into a ball and hug an air conditioner. In the 90s the heat index reaches as high as 110 here. Ick.

Yep. In dry Yerevan, 35 C feels absolutely survivable even to my Arctic ass. 25 C in damp Moscow though? A disaster unless there's AC ready.

It is also the question of efficiency and productivity in the most generic sense. You've got only one life, and there is no point in spending it uncomfortably sweating while say loosing your focus given that AC is really cheap, whether it is energy required or the hardware itself.

That’s kind of the point. It’s not uncomfortable to live life in those temperatures if you’re acclimatized. Maybe something you bring up in small talk (“what about this heat?”) but never something that’ll change how you live.

Plus indoor spaces never get that hot due to shade and passive cooling. A little breeze and 90 F is just fine.

While you can live through 90F, your productivity for work or house chores will really suffer - that is why south countries have siestas as it is better to just lay down and relax and possibly sleep through it than trying to do anything else. And don't forget pets - they don't sweat, so it is very hard on them.

I live in Phoenix. Very well adjusted to the temperature here. You sweat more. It was 75 yesterday, walked outside, started to shiver. Weird.

My mind goes to the “stickiness” and dampness of higher humidity days.

You can blow the warm air around all you want, but it’s inevitable there will be cooler less-porous surfaces that will condense warming mid-morning air, leaving puddles and wet spots.

Maybe this is a regional design where folks are used to this.

Wasn't a problem in such a building I visited but it had an essentially massive thermal battery (mass) cooled at night.

It would be interesting to have more details about the facilities where you stayed, especially before industrial scale accusations. It would improve the conversation.

I had an office in one of these buildings. I agree it’s gaslighting. In this specific instance the solution was to block most of the window and work in the dark. Every office was a concrete cave with inadequate lighting.

The upside was that the design didn’t allow it to go open plan.

I'm convinced there's forces out there who are trying to make these projects deliberately not work so that we can all collectively discredit the idea.

Naturally ventilated airports would probably have issues with fumes. Might not be a great idea.

If I believe correctly the Dyson headquarters was designed to be fairly efficient as well.

My father in laws house was intentionally designed to be naturally ventilated, thermal mass concrete slab in the middle, etc. And it's comfortably cool even on 40 degree days.

> Naturally ventilated airports would probably have issues with fumes.

I'm confused. Do you mean from the food places? Those need proper extraction anyway. Or the cars/planes? Then mechanically ventilated airports take the air basically from outside anyway.

> Then mechanically ventilated airports take the air basically from outside anyway.

This is not how A/C works.

Depends on whether an ERV/HRV or other fresh air intake system is involved, I guess. In a space like an airport with so many people, you do have to cycle in fresh air somehow, it can’t just be a sealed space.

Fair point

No, that's how ventilation works. They can be independent and you need both. Closed loop A/C provides no ventilation.

I don't disagree

The issue is continuous heatwaves, when you either buy ac or start to die. No passive cooling can help you when the nights stay hot

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