Comment by shagie | Hacker News Reader

Comment by shagie | Hacker News Reader

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If the job is for a backend Java developer position, change the list of languages you know from:

    Languages: JavaScript, C#, Python, Java

to:

    Languages: Java, C#, JavaScript, Python

Many times people order their languages by familiarity or preference for working with that technology. Don't make the person looking at the resume have to hunt for the information. If it's last on the list, that may say something about how much you're interested in that job and how likely you are to stay.

> but less clear why a career plumber would tailor resumes for applying to two plumber roles at slightly different companies.

If one company is looking for a plumber to do PEX and another is looking for someone who is experienced with natural gas and black pipe, you might want to make sure that your experience in those two different domains of plumbing are at the front of the experience. They're both plumbers, but the heating and air conditioning company hiring a plumber is looking for different things than the residential new construction plumber.

It's so funny to me that a tech company will have no problem hiring a VP from, like, a beverage company - but heaven forbid you put your programming languages in the wrong order on your resume.

Hiring a CEO, you know (of) the person and its more likely a "the board wants to hire {that person}" and it really doesn't matter what the text of their resume says. At most there's a dozen candidates and a several month process for selecting one of them.

For developers, if the resumes are largely the same, then you're selecting for the ones that show evidence that they read the job posting and want to work there.

This isn't about hiring the best candidate - it's the least risky candidate that is hired. If you're listing the preferred language of the job and the language that is mentioned in the job posting last, you're more likely to be a risky candidate than one who lists it first. You may not know the language as well. You may not enjoy working on it (there's a reason I don't list php in the languages on my resume).

In a stack with less risky candidates, the one that has the preferred language last won't be at the top of the list for callbacks.

While this makes absolutely no sense to me, I'm pretty sure unhinged language fanatics would reject some resumes because "Java is not the first on the list".

HR people and AIs, as much as I criticise them: would not reject that.

If I have 100 resumes, and 50 of them list Java first, and 50 of them list Java last, which pool of 50 am I most likely to find someone who knows and doesn't hate working in Java?

You're going to select 10 people out of that list of 100 because you don't have time to call everyone for three weeks to evaluate their skill.

You've also got only two hours to look through all 100 of those resumes today. You're spending about a minute and a half looking at each resume. How are you going to evaluate someone for a Java backend position who's last job was in C# and they list Java last in the list of languages they know?

Okay, yeah, now I agree with you.

The last paragraph makes a great point: if the person has been out of Java the game for long, they will definitely be second to someone who's fresh out of a Java job.

And the reason is exactly as you say: limited time, excessive number of CVs. This completely changes the game.

>which pool of 50 am I most likely to find someone who knows and doesn't hate working in Java?

The one who has actual projects or professional experience in Java? I'm surprised this is such a sticking point. I list my skills last on the resume because it's the least relevant and it was mostly to try and satisfy ATS. But reality is stranger than theory, I suppose.

At least, that was my old approach. I found some advice I really liked and ultimately integrate a tech stack sub-bullet in every experience now. Seems to be a good balance of ATS and human(-skimming) readability.

If I were reviewing 100 resumes, I wouldn't use the language list. I'd use something with actual context, like work experience.

But more than that, why do you think someone who is terrible at java wouldn't put it first in the list when applying for a java oriented job? Assuming they were aware of this unwritten rule.

AI wouldn't. It'll crunch the resume in milliseconds and sort it out itself.

HR is a mixed bag, usually without technical context. I'm sure most engineers in the 00's and 10's have some experience of "Java and JavaScript are similar, right?" In a recruiter call.

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