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Comment by empath75 | Hacker News Reader

Giving someone the finger is not a crime.

Interrupting a city council meeting, speaking out of turn, refusing to leave, and then devolving into obvious defiance is, however.

Well, she spoke about something 'off topic' during public comments - if that's the same thing as what you described, I'm not so sure.

>during public comments

You're conveniently omitting the fact it was public comments for a different issue

>Heider explained that she waited until the public comment period for a different issue, filled out a form to talk, and then got up to deliver a written statement about Flock cameras.

He may be omitting that because it seems like a convenient way to not hear comments about an issue by switching to a different issue.

Because the council canceled comments on the Flock issue that had been scheduled for that day.

Did I omit that? I don't think so. I pointed out her comments were 'off topic.'

> Well, she spoke about something 'off topic' during public comments

I didn't even address what others pointed out, which was that the topic was suddenly changed because these people showed up.

Ah I see you are well versed in bureaucratic attack strategies on the first amendment! “We’re not violating your rights, there’s a special first amendment zone you can say all that where we can’t hear!”

Can you instead try to see that people who disagree with you may actually not being attempting to subvert the first amendment, but instead are focusing on the necessary business city councils have to achieve? There are clearly limits on what you can say and do in a city council meeting.

I can see that, but that's also exactly the mechanism by which buraucracies attack the first amendment, so people who just reasonably disagree should explain how their disagreement doesn't serve the very agenda they say they're against.

Do you truly believe the mayor and city council were trying to attack the first amendment as a core principle?

We don't live in an free speech absolutist society. People don't get to talk about just anything, at any time during a city council meeting without restrictions. Don't attribute to malice what is more easily attribute to getting business done.

Malice isn't required to destroy the first amendment, city councils arresting people speaking out, in the name of getting business done is enough. I think the "I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it" view of free speech is very much a minority view. Most people, especially mayors and city councils, ascribe to the "free speech for me and not for thee" view.

> We don't live in an free speech absolutist society

I'm not sure what kind of society we live in. Is there even a social contract anymore? Is the Constitution even in effect? I'm not sure exactly what the rules are anymore, we live in a society where a mob violently attacked the US capitol, and got pardons for their trouble. So, why bother talking about anything, when violence is rewarded but speech gets you a record? What's even the point of the first amendment, it's meaningless when they can just write an executive order deeming their political opponents (or anyone) part of a vast but nebulous terrorist network, who obviously don't have a first amendment right. Because terrorists.

Annoying your local city council is exactly the sort of speech protected by the first amendment.

She was not arrested for that.

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