Comment by oliculipolicula | Hacker News Reader

Comment by oliculipolicula | Hacker News Reader

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oliculipolicula

[I have not read Gower's article. It's only that your response is prompting me to share what i've been thinking recently]

>the stepping stones required for human growth are disappearing.

Actually only in an institutional sense, imho. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but reddit.com/r/math* or even mathstackexchange will be so back with users analyzing and distilling proofs with AI. Maybe in 5 years (when lean attains 10% popularity of rust, and/or gpt7 level models cost ~USD5 on average, per month, inflation adjusted or not) this types of submissions will make those sites as fun/educational as mathoverflow [has always been for me]. One dreams that by that time openAI and Anthropic will have taken down your ethno-cultural "compatriot" Masayoshi with them.. (I prefer his brother whom he did not regret giving a physical beating to. Only purely on principle) so that they can't acquire these sites

Such forums can then replace math grad school, if the profs/alpoges who drop by get into the habit of constructive criticism (as they do on mathSE already). It's already starting, I see personally interesting 1 AI-aided submissions every 1.5-3 weeks starting 2 months ago

It would be like rust discussions on HN for you I bet.

This seems unlikely when s/math/physics/, or s/Reddit/HN/ because HN hates AI-aided posts so ideologically (sorry mods, I don't mean you guys). MO is also not as welcoming to outsiders/lay, congruent to academia (only online) PhysicsSE/overflow had become dumb and arrogant last decade

HN, even pg seem anti-intellectual in effect tbh whenever they sneer at AI _writing_ (again sorry mods, you will figure this out soon I believe, do you or do you not want HN to end up as a reservation for meatbrains), though I mostly am on their coder side with regards to this fields medallist letter

The AI debate is, in fact, somewhat ideological. The problem is that in the process, whether advocating for it or pushing for progress, there is a failure to face its limitations directly. In other words, it is emotional. Because AI's mere existence is a threat to knowledge workers, much like machines were a threat to blue-collar workers. That is, if the value of intellectual labor drops, it damages the value of the labor force through which workers earn capital in a capitalist system.

I have tried solving a few math problems with AI (they were Erdős problems), but because I know absolutely nothing about that math, I couldn't just take the AI's word for it, so I am actually a bit skeptical. A problem arises where you arrive at the answer without actually understanding it. It's not that AI is bad. The problem is that AI destroys the equilibrium between the knowledge I have and the knowledge I lack. That boundary collapses, making it feel as if I can know everything.

Actually, academia is fundamentally about mental models. It's a kind of internal worldview, and that worldview is shared. When you actually listen to the thoughts of scholars and professors, there are subtly different aspects. That forms the person's worldview... and I get the feeling that sharing it is what constitutes intellectual activity.

However, as you mentioned, unlike academics like yourself, academia and knowledge communities seem disconnected to someone like me (meaning they lack accessibility). Even if I were to make a discovery, it would probably be hard for me to become recognized, and I do think AI could actually play a role in opening up those closed communities. But apart from that, I find it hard to say that this only has positive aspects.

I followed Karpathy's research from start to finish to build a small LLM like nanoGPT on my own, and people say that because of the positive transfer that comes from feeding diverse data through modern LLM multimodal encoders, there will be new discoveries. But in reality, the types of problems AI excels at are generally those that humans have found but overlooked. In my opinion, rather than being a knowledge machine, LLMs (or AI) make me feel that what we call "intellectual activity" is closer to a kind of serialization work. A method of stacking things up one by one in sequence, so to speak? After all, the actual operating principle of an LLM proceeds according to the probability of the token coming in the next sequence.

In other words, I think the serialization method of our knowledge activities is similar to how LLMs operate, but I also think a different kind of thinking might be necessary. I am not that smart, and I have never interacted with scholars... (As you know, I am a subcontract worker. Of course, I have been hired by startups run by professors in my country, but it's not like I modeled that intellectual design myself.)

On the contrary, I feel that the evolutionary approach will slow down after GPT 6 Astra. They can continue to increase the size, but the issue lies in the cost-effectiveness of token costs.

Anyway, I agree with most of what you said in your discussion, but rather than anti-intellectualism, I consider this a direct threat to survival.

>types of problems AI excels at are generally those that humans have found but overlooked.

Seems to be a deep and interesting angle lurking here, especially when coupled to

>evolutionary approach will slow down

Meaning something I will have to think about (while keeping Graeber in the background[0]) or even plan around :)

Will respond after I sleep on it

[0] https://davidgraeber.org/articles/value-as-the-importance-of...

In value terms, the question becomes: who has the right to translate their money into what sorts of meaning? Who controls the medium through which, and the institutions through which, our actions become meaningful to ourselves, by the very act of being publicly recognized in some kind of public arena? It seems to me that while if one is trying to understand the strategies by which people can move back and forth between “fields”, and especially, by which some are excluded from them, Bourdieu’s models are pretty much indispensable, THEY DO LITTLE to tell us why anyone wishes to enter certain fields to begin with.

The evolution of fields, of domains of enquiries. AI-independent

First of all, I take it for granted there is really no such thing as “intelligence”

Writing like this from 2005, feels like a personal bedtime Bible for AI age

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