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Comment by ygjb | Hacker News Reader

There are lots of good reasons that are used to paper over the abuse cases.

Microphones in tvs are a useful accessibility feature when they enable voice commands for the user, and allow them to be used as voice assistants.

They also enable tvs with a camera and microphone to be used as video calling or audio calling interfaces. Used well we get star Trek view screens, used poorly we get little brother monitoring.

For those interested, it turns the tv into an interactive terminal for voice and camera powered video games, which are becoming more popular.

Unfortunately advertising and tracking incentives drive the abuse cases to the top and will crush the positive use cases :(

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Are there any useful resources for finding devices that don't have surveillance apparatus built in?

I'm still not purchasing a television. The last thing I need is more screen time in my life.

You'd be looking for what's now called a "dumb tv". But those are getting rare, because TVs that can't sell your watch data have to be more expensive to make up for that, and that doesn't sell. Commercial screens are an option, as are computer monitors. Or getting a smart tv and never connecting it to the internet. So far nobody has started shipping TVs with a mobile connection to exfiltrate data, as far as we know. Unlike cars.

There are plans to build these networks at various stages. Putatively to enable connectivity, but in practice the tech creates a device to device mesh network that enables side channel communication over a secure mechanism that is not necessarily subject to use control.

I think it would be less time consuming to build one yourself.

Less time consuming than just ... not connecting a new TV to WiFi?

It's pretty straightforward to get dumb behavior out of a modern smart TV as long as you're satisfied with the factory installed firmware version.

"…as long as you're satisfied with the factory installed firmware version."

Why wouldn't one be? Not that long ago 'dumb' TVs never even had firmware (and that was the situation throughout most of television history). Allowing a manufacturer to update TV firmware online is dangerous and foolhardy. (Same reasons why I never let any of my printers go anywhere near the internet—any driver software is always blocked by a firewall.)

Im not sure if you read up on the situation, but the current smart TV's surveillance functions are way beyond what anyone should have to deal with.

They scan and connect to near Wifi devices to send data without consent There is communications being done through HDMI.

I mean what is it going to take for people to realize that getting smart TV, for any reason, is really dumb.

name a make a model that does this.

Watch the GamersNexus video. Its all there.

No it isnt. they never once stated that WAS happening, just that it COULD happen. Feel free to name a make and model if you disagree.

> So far nobody has started shipping TVs with a mobile connection to exfiltrate data, as far as we know

Yeah, I suspect that it either isn't a big enough segment of the market to make the costs worth it, or they just haven't been caught. Given that it's pretty easy to add amazon sidewalk connectivity to devices with bluetooth radios (which most of these TVs have to support external wireless speakers), I'd be shocked if they hadn't at least experimented and estimated payoff on doing that.

The problem is when a helpful friend or family member decides to connect the TV to the Internet for you, they have good intentions and think they are helping but have in fact screwed up your carefully considered plan. Same thing goes when someone agrees to all terms and conditions on a nag screen that pops up (as in the video only a subset of T&C were required to function but agree to all was the default behaviour), or when they go and apply that automatic update/upgrade that you didn't want on a device you own (i.e. from Windows 10 to Windows 11).

There's too many dark patterns and bad behaviour from big corporations these days trying to wear you down and trick you into relinquishing your rights and letting them "get away with murder".

Or a projector, which is a way better experience anyway if you can stand having a curtained room.

Commercial screens are full of the same connectivity and anti-features that nobody (well maybe except if you are a hotel or similar) wants.

Computer monitors doesn't exists about something like 32".

There's no practical reason for most people. Spying is the primary function. Edge cases like accessibility or conferencing can be easily enabled with an add on USB mic. You'd need a USB webcam with mic for conferencing anyway.

People use voice commands on TV remotes all the time if they're using streaming apps. At this point it's the default way to interact with the UI for many people.

Typing out the show you're searching for with an awkward onscreen keyboard is a huge pain compared to just clicking a button and speaking.

HN users are very much in a bubble if it's surprising to learn consumers expect voice control functionality on a new TV.

"HN users are very much in a bubble if it's surprising if it's learn consumers expect voice control functionality on a new TV."

Perhaps a few are unaware but most know. As I said in my post, some (like me) only want traditional FTA — and with it comes anonymity by default.

Smart TVs undermine and subvert the virtues of FDA services. It should be mandated that it's possible for modern smart TVs to switch to FTA-only mode if viewers so desire. Similarly, regulation should ensure that dumb TVs always be available for those who want them.

Whilst most around me do expect voice control to exist... Most expect it not to function. "Hey Siri/Google" was always more of an exercise in frustration than success.

It seems the Australian accent still befuddles most STT with about 1/8 words confused (said as someone who uses STT to use their computer at all).

It would not shock me, if outside of North America and Great Britain, these systems are as effective as the original autocorrect algo.

Accessibility is not an edge case. Every single human being who lives long enough will experience some form of accessibity challenge, either for themselves or for others around them.

You can dismiss the lives experience of most humans over the history of humanity, but it won't win you any arguments.

> Microphones in tvs are a useful accessibility feature

Made nearly moot by the presence of microphones in most (all?) modern remotes.

I say nearly moot because its worth noting the ability to operate a physical remote may itself be prohibitive to some.

So in effect, there are a multitude microphones in a modern LG environment.

a tv may be the only shared device in low income homes.

Like I do with laptops, just snip wires (or pull out header/connector) to microphone and camera. Problem partly solved.

Fully solve it by disconnecting network cable/Wi-Fi so there's no internet.

For me a TV set only receives FTA signals and has connectors for local media/AV input. It ceases to be a TV set when it starts doing what my PCs and laptops do.

(Anonymity is the reason why FTA broadcasting is still so very important, by design it's only one-way — broadcaster to listener/viewer. Unfortunately smart TVs and the internet subvert anonymity by design.)

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