Omarchy Is a Power Grab | Hacker News Reader

Omarchy Is a Power Grab

tante.cc

98 pointsroboterer77 comments

This is a bunch of drama that's so easy to ignore. Publishing this article is just drawing more people to Omarchy. I don't know anything about it and don't care for yet-another-linux-distro-that-does-whatever. It'll eventually settle outside the big three like all other distros.

It was easy to ignore before it "raised" around 15 million dollars. That's a lot of money to be throwing around a mostly-donation based ecosystem.

I'm already seeing discussions on the mise[0] Github discussions about Omarchy specific changes and designs. I'm not saying anything about these specific changes and they seem mostly distro-agnostic for now, but it goes to show how it can affect other distros/software even if you don't use it.

[0] mise is being sponsored by the Omacon foundation, which is what all this money is technically going to. It also happens to be the only "independent" tool being sponsored by the foundation, as the hyperland dev is essentially contracted by them and the QuickShell dev was hired by DHH.

It's easy to ignore now.

Are the changes Omarchy specific or distro-agnostic? You say both.

I don't even know what hyperland and quickshell are. I don't use mise because it seems to solve problems I solve with containers.

> Are the changes Omarchy specific or distro-agnostic? You say both.

The changes are specifically for Omarchy. They just happen to still be distro-agnostic. There is no guarantee this continues in the future.

The discussions:

Using managed tool-stub bundles for Omarchy’s lazy CLI layer: https://github.com/jdx/mise/discussions/12597

Proposal: give every Omarchy user a declarative "my machine" file with mise bootstrap: https://github.com/jdx/mise/discussions/12709

Proposal: give Omarchy dotfiles automatic history, easy restore, and optional sync with mise: https://github.com/jdx/mise/discussions/13022

> I don't even know what hyperland and quickshell are. I don't use mise because it seems to solve problems I solve with containers.

Okay? Your lack of awareness of the tools does not change the fact that 15 millions dollars that is supposed to "support the linux desktop", but right now is mostly funding its own distro.

Seems like a waste on these tools anyway

> 15 millions dollars that is supposed to "support the linux desktop", but right now is mostly funding its own distro.

There is no general destination to support Linux Desktop. Linux Foundation is not that, in addition to having more money than they need, and spending less than 5% of their budget on actual kernel.

The only way to support Linux and its desktop is to support individual project. Be they separate or part of some distro. That's the beauty of Linux and open-source - all the features and efforts are dynamically leaking elsewhere in the ecosystem.

DHH never promised to support outside projects. Omarchy Foundation is supposed to support Linux via developing Omarchy, putting all the money there, not by having a tax-evation foundation with high-paid executives, distributing a tiny percentage of the budget to some general unmeasurable cause.

Hence why DHH supports Hyprland and not Niri. He said that directly.

I have a really cool idea if you’re the type to complain about software you don’t like. You can try this thing called “continuing to not run that software that upsets you.” I do it all the time! It’s quite liberating to not care about nor try to control others!

you should probably read the article

> And that is why Omarchy matters. Sadly. Not because of its technical merit (even though those fascists love to use the “merit” argument to fight human rights) but because of its leader, his connections and his ability to accumulate financial power. Without anyone in that ecosystem saying anything about how that leader operates and talks. And you might know the saying: If there’s a Nazi and 10 folks sitting together at a table and nobody says and does anything? There’s 11 Nazis at that table.

> Running Omarchy means contributing to this dynamic. It means willingly integrating oneself into a fascist community. Legitimizing it. Supporting it. Omarchy is a fascist project that normalizes fascist thinking for everyone entering that community (even unknowingly). The baseline has to be not to use that system. And as people who believe in human rights and dignity, in community and a tech world that can be better we need to oppose Omarchy. Need to make sure it gets no seat at any table.

The same could be said about your comment. A take you disagree with can be scrolled past, no need to disagree with it vocally. Yet you did. Because you have an opinion and you felt compelled to share it with others.

Anyway, I am currently using omarchy, I installed it knowing only that dhh was known to be a jerk. I assumed that meant a linus-esque “sometimes yells at people in emails” kinda thing. So sharing this kind of post is actually quite helpful. Because of it, I’ll be installing a different arch variant next time I get the itch to try something new.

Perhaps, the difference is that I’m not implying that anyone who disagrees with me is a nazi.

I do the same but you have to understand that some people just can’t get over the fact somebody else has different opinions, different takes on life or software and decide to chart and walk their own path at their own pace.

Btw ggwp to dhh and omarchy’s team.

Ormarchy/arch is not my cup of tea but kudos to them for doing their own thing.

aren't you kinda doing the same thing, trying to control others by pointing out they shouldn't complain?

Not really; ganelonhb is pointing out that there is an alternative choice, not insisting that (1) the individual must make that choice and (2) if they don't others must shun that individual and their projects.

There is a big difference in the implications behind my post and OP. OP seems to be implying that anybody who doesn’t raise hell about Omarchy is a nazi. I’m just saying it’s easier to “vote with your CPU.” If a particular configuration of instructions make you think you’re a nazi, just don’t run them.

Here’s a non-political example. I don’t run Duckstation because the developer frequently makes it abundantly clear that he hates Linux users and in recent years has done his best to pretty much ban its use on my distro of choice, Arch (btw). It’s a personal decision that other people just don’t need to know about. Feel free to disagree with me on this nuance, but I think it’s actually more “fascistic” to attempt to forcibly compel people to not run software on ideological grounds.

Tl;dr vote with your cpu. If enough people do it, the software will die. Pearl clutching does nothing but raise buzz around the software that you hate

I don't see anything racist in the manifesto whatsoever; the turn foff for me here "Welcome the Agents".

Seems like we are transitioning to the fighting stage of "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."

Alternatively we are transitioning to the bullying stage of:

(1) Shaming (you should be embarrassed for thinking this)

(2) Bullying (you should be afraid for thinking this)

(3) Recruitment (contacting authorities to deal with the wrongthinker through misrepresentation)

(4) Pity (I am hurt by your wrongthink, stop hurting me, everyone please help)

> There’s also nothing wrong in more opinionated software

Except the fact that it's a breeding chamber for those "unity and identity" types of people/ideologies/projects?

Embracing diversity is messy, and it's also a blessing. There should be lots of ways of doing the same thing, etc.

i dont believe tech projects have a right to talk about "heritage is duty" and certainly not when the creator has made a point about being a white supremacists. i wonder when he says unity, if he means the non-white he complains so much about explicitly in his article "as i remember britain"

My point is that opinionated software is a magnet for supremacist types and ideologies. It's a nest for their "vision" or whatever.

We're already way past the point of pointing out his character flaws. I want to also point out that as long as we keep this exception the post author made of "ah, there's nothing wrong with being opinionated", these types will use that as a means to push their agenda.

I believe we should aim for the messy, "lots of different ways of doing the same thing" as a clear substrate that embraces all kinds of diversity of ideas and rejects the scumbag ideologies inherently.

Would be awesome if people stopped throwing around the word fascist like it's nothing. I wonder if the person who wrote this had any family members who ran into real fascists during the 20th century. While DHH might be a POS at times, that doesn't make him a fascist.

He's literally calling for ethnic cleansing. What word would you use to describe him?

Racist, but not fascist. Fascism is a whole different concept.

Yeah it’s:

> A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

Sounds pretty accurate to me.

How is that, at all, related to Omarchy apart from the racist dog whistles from its founder?

It's like people see a blue t-shirt and say 'look, that t-shirt is rainbow colored'. No, that t-shirt has ONE of the colors of the rainbow, but it's missing red, orange, yellow, green and purple.

> How is that, at all, related to Omarchy

Funny you should ask, I just read a blog post that described exactly how one guy’s shitty beliefs are a problem. It was called “Omarchy is a Power Grab” i’m sure you can find a link to it if you look around.

Not capitalist but corporatist, where the government directs companies and unions to achieve what the state considers the common goal.

However I fail to see what this has to do with omarchy

I failed to see the brick wall, but i still hit it and totaled my car.

Maybe you should have kept your eyes open and allow them to see the real world, instead of living in a fantasy land.

That's great advice to all people who fail to see large hazards fast approaching. Like, say, a fascistic kleptocracy that's quickly forming in a large western country.

I doubt that DHH somehow has an impact or even a say in that future fascist kleptocracy with some barely working linux distro, but if you really think that way and you think these actions do anything to damage it, you're incredibly wrong.

All you do is look like extremist weirdos and make moderates and people who couldn't care less about politics be interested in what they're doing. For every complaint I see about omarchy I see a ton from people that just heard about it and started using it, all after the whole DHH is the devil and omarchy is the fascist distro started, which is ironic and honestly hilarious.

Hyper-politicization of open source outside of its domain has ruined it. This is not a new phenomenon but has certainly increased as fringe politics have gone more mainstream and taken advantage by politicians, content creators and your average power hungry bully who wants to use idiots to obtain easy money and power.

I do not believe he is 'literally calling for ethnic cleansing', based on what I've read. But if you would like to make that argument, please enclose 2 quotes from him that you believe support your proposition, with a link to the original source.

I would describe DHH as a narcissist. Normal people who don't have a massive ego and hugely inflated view of themselves don't get involved in these societal conversations in the first place, to even be accused of being a fascist.

"When wolves get out of control, you shoot them. When gypsies take over public spaces, you deport them. This isn't hard, it isn't cruel. It's the basic logic of self-preservation."

https://world.hey.com/dhh/wolves-sheep-and-gypsies-ba44af6a

The European Union is known for its Schengen Zone, which allows EU citizens to travel between other EU member states freely. However, did you know that until 2025, there were two countries who were full EU member states, that were not a part of the Schengen Zone? [1]

They were Romania and Bulgaria, the two countries where - you guessed it - most of the Romani people, colloquially known as Gypsies, are from. The rest of the EU, for a very long time, denied these countries equal Schengen access precisely because no one else in the EU wanted Gypsies in their countries. Precisely because of the disrespectful behavior they display when they set-up shop somewhere.

DHH did not call for them to be shot, he expressed that he would like to deport homeless vagrants who were not Danish citizens. If vagrancy is a crime, then deporting a criminal is not a controversial stance. It is, in fact, standard operating procedure for any nation-state in the world that can afford to do so.

However, his language and rhetoric to invoke shooting wolves (a dangerous and feral animal) in the same sentence (essentially) as deporting Gypsies is, at a minimum, dangerous and irresponsible as it can encourage vigilantism and civil violence where people can take the law into their own hands. It would have been better if he had moderated his language, however strictly speaking - this does not quality as 'literally calling for ethnic cleansing', especially when in the context of deporting non-citizens of a nation state who are accused of criminal activity.

[1] https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/news/bulgaria-and-romania-...

When you have to do mental leaps and bounds to make it not seem like calling for ethnic cleansing... it's probably a call for ethnic cleansing.

Logical arguments can be hard to follow, it is true.

There is nothing remotely racist or fascist about that. He’s talking about behavior, not race. And deportation is merely a tool that both fascists and non–fascists alike can use. Frankly the historical examples of fascism did very little actual deporting.

he talks about groups of human beings as if they were animals. if you are ok with that, fine. but that’s what he is doing

People mention the politics, but this is mainly Ruby (and RoR) whoring out itself to AI because Shopify wants their merchants to vibe code websites. Ruby tries to counteract the declining popularity and in my opinion makes it worse. I was on the point of switching to Ruby before I found out about all this AI boosting.

Digital Ocean contributed? Typical nihilist corporation (2021 pandering to Biden):

https://www.digitalocean.com/blog/diversity-equity-inclusion...

Team ohm-ARCH-ee vs Team ooh-MAH-chee

If it was only based on Slackware would i consider it.

This author seems a tad obsessed. 15 times they threw the word fascist around. DHH certainly has some controversial views that many (including myself) find distasteful, but the idea that he will use his funding to suppress and take funding from politically opposed founders and push fascism is nothing short of conspiracy theory.

Use Omarchy if you like the OS. Don't use it if you don't like it. A political analysis of the founders and leadership behind every product you use must be an exhausting way to live your life

He's on the record supporting Tommy Robinson, who is one of the most prominent fascists in England. He's on the record calling for "remigration" (which is a specific word with specific meaning and context, it's not just synonym for deportation, it's a fascist dog whistle).

I think that's plenty evidence, I'm not waiting for him to tatoo "I am a fascist" on his forehead.

Also, a minimum awareness of the politics of the people producing the stuff you use is actually pretty necessary when fascism is on the rise all around the world. Might be exhausting, sure, but it's better than the alternative

Robinson being fascist is dubious. If you look at the wikipedia on him it doesn't say he is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Robinson It has "Tommy Robinson, is a British far-right, anti-Islam activist", he was a member of the BNP briefly and called Islam fascist.

A bit disingenuous to say "he was a member of the BNP briefly" - that almost makes it sound like he left the BNP by choice!

In reality, he was kicked out because he insisted on prioritising violence over politics (contradicting the BNP's "political soldier" leadership, who said that both should have equal weight). It was this disagreement that led to him coming to prominence in the first place, and he's traded on his "too violent for the mainstream fascists" image ever since.

I agree that "some controversial views that many find distasteful" is not the same as being fascist.

And well, DHH is fascist.

What is a fascist?

Is that even a good faith question? It is not like it was an obscure word.

Accusations of fascism are rarely made in good faith either. As I pointed out in response to @undeveloped, Merrian-Webster's definition doesn't seem applicable to DHH.

fascist

noun

fas· cist also ˈfa-shist

or Fascist, plural Fascists : a person who advocates or works to further the aims of fascism : an adherent of or participant in a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and forcible suppression of opposition

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascist

As far as I can tell, the only thing DHH has that is consistent with this definition is racism/nationalism, but:

1. He hasn't spoused actual collectivist beliefs, like "nothing out of the state, everything within the state" kind of BS (YET), just intra-race and national solidarity, so "exalts nation and often race above the individual" is argueable;

2. I don't see him promoting a supreme leader style of leadership, so "that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader" is not applicable;

3. I also don't see him pushing for stronger state control over the economy. If anything, he probably wants a more developmentists/startup culture economy given point 2 and 3 in (https://world.hey.com/dhh/three-sacred-cows-that-must-die-so...), so "severe economic and social regimentation and forcible suppression of opposition" is out.

Overall, he just seems like a white supremacist atm. Not every white supremacist is fascist.

> Overall, he just seems like a white supremacist atm.

Just.

Central autocratic government, run by a cult of personality leader, seeking loyal disciples willing to subsume themselves into the project. Proud claims to heritidge. Obsession with a veneer of beauty...

I don't know why people are finding this so hard to pin down. Maybe not nationalistic facsism but it sure dresses the same, walks the same, barks the same.

Britannica on the historic version:

>Europe’s first fascist leader, Benito Mussolini, took the name of his party from the Latin word fasces, which referred to a bundle of elm or birch rods (usually containing an ax) used as a symbol of penal authority in ancient Rome. Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation.

Not DHH or Robertson really.

If you think him getting money from Jack Dorsey and Michael Dell has no political implications, I have a bridge in Brooklyn and a tower in Paris to sell you. This isn't conspiracy theory, this is following incentives.

We should be aware of the motivations of the software we use. This is why we've had licensing fights for decades.

>If you think him getting money from Jack Dorsey and Michael Dell has no political implications,

And the device you type this on is made by which company? Apple? Google? Microsoft? Lenovo? They all involved in politics and lobbying. And it's powered by which ASICS? Apple? Intel? AMD? Nvidia? All of them are involved in lobbying and politics you might disagree with. And yet you still use them and nobody is giving you shit about it.

You're a pot calling the kettle black here. If you wanna get online and do work, unless you're fabbing chips and laptop boards in your garage, you're gonna be directly or indirectly funding some tech business involved in politics you might not like.

So it's pretty hypocritical and somewhat mental of you to spend so many comments here trying to dunk on people willing to use Omarchy just because the owner has politics you disagree. Why can't you live your life and let others live their own in piece without turning discussions into your own political war (which BTW is also against HN rules)?

I am much more likely to get someone to stop using omarchy and actually learn something about computers doing this than I am to convince someone to stop using a Google product. If I be can active when something like this is fresh, I will. And if you think this is just about DHHs politics, think again, its also about having that maniac in any kind of position of power anywhere. I'd say the same if he were an MLM or Kim family fanatic, but those people dont really exist, where weirdo racists do, and in large numbers.

I really dont care about the guidelines on politics here. They seem to have been made by children who are afraid to have their monied friends political passion projects criticized by smart people.

Blogger has thoughts, world continues to spin.

Here's DHH directly addressing these claims of fascism / xenophobia / etc. Worth a listen.

https://youtu.be/GYx4OBbswTw

DHH and Lex in one video - that'll be a fun 24:51 of my life I'm sure...

Even ignoring politics, I’m sure there are more impactful ways to spend $18 million. Many OSS projects are underfunded, why not give some of that to e.g. Bevy (https://bevy.org/sponsorship-pledge/), Unsloth (https://github.com/sponsors/unslothai), or better, many small grants to many small projects?

If these companies wanted to donate to OSS, they would have already. They've made their decision.

You are free to donate your money to your project of choice.

This is such a disingenuous comment. People are allowed to be displeased with how these very wealthy people have spent their money without being told "hrmm, well maybe you should vote with your dollar!!"

No, it's their money, they may as well burn it. Why should we care, we didn't earn it and we have no right to it.

It'd be different if we were talking about government funding. Companies and individuals can and should be able to do with their assets as they please.

This is some Randian "no society, only individuals" level of commentary. I dont have to have a "right" to their money to find how they spend it objectionable, and I sure as hell don't need to act like their actions won't have second and third order effects. Everything is connected, and the sooner we get away from this idea that individuals operate in a bubble, the sooner we will all benefit.

No, this is a respect other entities rights commentary.

do you have 18 million on hand

I'm hoping that this is getting upvotes for the obvious and disingenuous use of the term "fascist", which apparently has lost all meaning.

DHH is not a fascist, he is an attention seeker with a reality distortion field. An RDF is of no use unless you say edgy things. The author is being played by writing an article like this. Its exactly what DHH wants.

being indistinguishable from a fascist is, surprisingly, still fascism.

Its like when a couple of nazis show up at your bar and you dont through them out. Welp, now you're a nazi bar.

The real world requires proactive protection from these people. That's reality of where we are today.

> Its like when a couple of nazis show up at your bar and you dont through them out. Welp, now you're a nazi bar.

That logic doesn't follow, sorry.

You can be inclusive, yet not become the thing you're inclusive to. That's a mental stretch.

That's the political crux of this thread.

Including people who are violently un-inclusive is just being violently un-inclusive with an extra step.

Like, there are a lot of world views and opinions that can be included without damaging the space, but nazism is very clearly not one of them. Fascism and the authoritarian forms of communism also fall under this heading.

> Including people who are violently un-inclusive is just being violently un-inclusive with an extra step.

Respectfully, that doesn't make any sense.

How does it not make sense?

Like take politics out of it for a sec. You own a bar. There’s one customer who comes in every night and drinks five shots and then sucker-punches a random other person in the bar.

Sure, you’re not violently assaulting one of your customers every night - but functionally, you have created a space where someone gets hurt every night. The first time it happens it’s not your fault, but the 20th time? Come on.

i dont think its actually important if DHH is really, in his heart of hearts, is a fascist --- what he is doing is spreading white supremacist, anti immigrant, nativist literature -- in combination. i think if you think liberalism (as in american revolution, the english bill of rights, modern democracy, etc) is valuable, you should probably oppose fascism, the ideology of those who reject liberalism and would like to go back.

https://world.hey.com/dhh/wolves-sheep-and-gypsies-ba44af6a

https://world.hey.com/dhh/three-sacred-cows-that-must-die-so...

Even the most liberal Nozickean voluntary society existentially requires a mechanism to limit granting of membership to those who genuinely uphold its values, and limit intrusion and abuse by those who do not. The literature you linked shows that DHH is cognizant of Popper's Paradox and is willing to defend liberalism from exploitation.

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