PlayStation cancels Kojima's PHYSINT, Xbox steps in | Hacker News Reader

PlayStation cancels Kojima's PHYSINT, Xbox steps in

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While PlayStation is on a streak of one bad decision after the other, I'd give them benefit of the doubt here.

Kojima likes to work unhinged on grand ideas with a tall budget which may stick or not stick at all. So may be Sony didn't like the direction of Physint and decided to dump it.

While Sony may be wrong in judging the game in its early stage, the replacement publisher, Microsoft, has solid track record of terrible taste at creating exclusives.

Which of his ideas didn't stick? Pretty sure the guy hasn't had a failure in recent memory.

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls596355504/

They're saying on Reddit that DS2's sales fell well below expectations, which wouldn't surprise me. I liked the game a lot but it was a sequel to an already fairly niche game (that I liked even more).

Success is measured in profit for companies and it seems that the numbers of what games like Death Stranding cost compared to what they earned back are not available, so it likely isn't looking rosy.

I'm seeing claims of a cost in the $100M to $300M range, while seeing earnings in the $60M to $120M (as of 2025) range. That's $20M plus in the best case, which is still underwhelming.

This may be the case - although none of us have access to the real figures.

It's also impossible to judge success relative to marketing budget, how well the game was pushed by Sony etc.

Clearly a critical success and an objectively good game however.

> As of March 2021, the game has sold 5 million copies worldwide for the PS4 and PC platforms. > By April 2025, Death Stranding had reached over 20 million players worldwide.

This is surely more than $60M-$120M earnings.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Stranding

It sells for as little as five bucks in some markets [1] and has done so since at least 2021 [2]. Even the most expensive version is only about twice of that.

This makes it a bit difficult to estimate earnings from worldwide sales numbers. But yes, the earnings could be higher. The cost could be lower, too. It's all just speculation.

[1]: https://steamdb.info/app/1850570/

[2]: https://old.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/qzj7i7/just_a_rem...

Death Stranding and Death Stranding 2 come to mind.

Death Stranding 1 at least was a fairly large commercial success. 5 million copies sold, critical darling, and a hugely original put at doing something new.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Stranding#Reception

This situation seems very similar to Konami's frustrations with him a decade ago. Don't get me wrong, Konami too seemed hell-bent on driving into the ground, but Kojima does have a reputation for going over time and over budget. In a world of tightening belts, I wonder if Sony execs felt the same frustration as their counterparts did. We'll see how he fairs with Xbox, which seems even more eager than the other two to shutter things these days.

He was also facing cancellation at Sony, so it's plausible (if not likely) that he had to accept less favorable terms from Microsoft.

Hopefully we won't get another MGS:V situation where the last part of the game is just kind of missing.

Pretty remarkable. There are only three reasons I intend to buy a PS5 and Kojima games are one of them.

https://xcancel.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/status/20978775064016817...

This is very strange given the long-standing relationship between the two parties.

Death Stranding 2 underperformed.

It sold only 2-3 million copies which, depending on how much money they spent on development and marketing, may be a net loss

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Stranding_2%3A_On_the_Be...

Severing your relationship with a generation-defining artist because they had one whiff that only brought in $140,000,000+ in revenue seems shortsighted, even if you actually did lose money on that entry. About what I would expect from the MBA-driven economy, though. Your golden goose has shit out 10 golden eggs for you, then it lays one regular egg and you try to kill it. Except you fail and somebody else gets your goose instead.

Really odd indeed, many of the Sony executives used to be relatively "It's OK to fail once, you've proven you can output stuff given resources", but seemingly there is a new Sony now where not obsessively cutting costs and doing bets isn't part of the culture anymore. Sad to see.

It's still the same kind of leadership that also closed Japan Studio as well as Studio Liverpool.

They don't understand what made the brand great in aggregate.

Kojima has a history of overspending by trying to make grandiose but weird games. And while they performed well, MGS4 sold less then The Last of Us or other big hits. I think that Kojima's games are games that people talk about more than they play. Probably MGS5 is the only one that actually "plays good".

Back then gaming wasn't as big as it is today. It does make sense to have TLOU outsold MGS4, they have 5 years gap, it is more than a decade later for both games now. I think we need to talk about percentage impacts rather than absolute numbers.

But how many of those games are console shifters? Hell back in the day I finally caved and bought a PS3 because of MGS4. Alright it may only shift say, 60% of the units, but if more of those units included a console purchase too then the onward value is huge.

Uncharted did more for PS3 than MGS4. I doubt anyone bought a PS4 for Death Stranding.

The W in MBA stands for Wisdom!

Sony also presumably has a lot of visibility into the project, and it was already being framed as "genre-defining." I've loved various Kojima games but especially with the other exclusives line-up that Sony has, I can understand this is just too much risk for them.

It remains to be seen what egg will be laid in this case, how many golden ones may come after, and how many end up on Playstation anyway.

Kojima is infamous for being difficult to work with as well as expensive, and Death Stranding 2 didn't do that well after the already-divisive Death Stranding. I think describing him as a generation-defining artist is a bit much, something a devoted fan might say. His mistreatment of David Hayter because David isn't an A-list Hollywood actor really soured my view of him. By all accounts, Kojima has a fantasy of being a Hollywood director and hanging out with movie stars, and he wants to make gigantic expensive Hollywood movie-esque projects. I'm not surprised Sony would get cold feet.

No wonder they made me pay 80€ for it. Making up for the losses.

I got Death Stranding on a Steam sale, was thrilled to play my first Hideo Kojima game, but couldn't finish it; so I understand why it has little appeal to some people.

Some of the many game mechanics I didn't enjoy at all:

- Holding still and holding your breath until.

- Having to calm your technobaby or they will have a nervous breakdown.

- Constantly tilting your weight left and right so your packages don't fall.

- Slowly walking everywhere, because your packages will fall if you're not careful.

I don't know it it gets better after 20 hours, I couldn't reconcile my need for entertainment against knowing 80% of those hours were spent walking and balancing my stack of packages. I'll still try another of his games, but likely not DS 2.

You can't have a relationship with a lawnmower.

I mean every time that Kojima made a game it turned out to be something that people talk about for years on. But the second it gets slightly more ambitious investors get their panties in the knot about it even though throughout history Kojima's products made a massive return. This split will also, in my opinion, lead to Kojima losing access to Decima engine, which sucks in a whole different way.

I never bothered Death Stranding and everything after MGS-3 has been very meh IMO. He didn't really want to make MGS 4 & 5.

MGS 3 itself while an excellent game overstays it welcome after you defeat "The End" IMO.

The games that he is well known for at this point are really 20+ years old.

I totally disagree. Death Stranding was groundbreaking in many ways.

Yes. And DS2 was somehow boring. It felt like a DLC for DS.

I don't really understand when people find more of a good game to be boring. It's ok to take a break if you're tired of the formula or whatever but I dunno

To me it seems like saying "oh no, not another delicious steak today, I couldn't possibly"

I guess people just prefer more novelty than I do?

People gotten used to the idea of "Same as existing but more/small additions" should actually be a DLC/addon, not worthy of incrementing the number and being a successor. For those, you need to completely change the entire thing to something else, then people are fine, and it's a hit/miss if the existing players like it.

Otherwise people feel like the parent, that it's just slightly different than before but incrementally improved, and should therefore be a DLC.

Would you say the same about more obviously artistic mediums? "Oh, their second album sounds exactly like their first which I liked!" isn't a compliment, usually.

I mean, yes?

My favorite band started experimenting with different sounds and genres and while I still like their old stuff I don't care for their new stuff much

I would love if they made more that sounded like their old stuff.

Obviously it's their art and I don't begrudge them doing their own thing, but it was a bummer when I listened to it and felt it was no longer for me.

Yeah, of course I would. If I like a given artist's work, I want more work which is like that. I don't begrudge artists who want to do new things, but "it's just like his old work" is IMO high praise, not a valid criticism.

There's "just like" and "just like". Understanding what allows you to stand out and making sure you don't throw it away is important, but so is avoiding stagnation. After all, creation is the essence of art.

Even if the succeeding effort is just adding polish and streamlining your previous sound, it's something different in my books.

In any case, in all the music discussion I've been, "artist that keeps making the same album" has always been a strong criticism very much like "one trick pony".

Take Wolfenstein 3D (1992) as an example. Genre defining game, no question.

Spear of Destiny (also 1992) is not only more of the same game, but an entire new game worth of new content. Great, but it's not part of any conversation.

Then came Doom (1993). Genre defining game all over again, no question.

On the other hand, you have Death Stranding (2019) and Death Stranding 2 (2025). Why did it take six years to make more of the same game?

How did it break ground exactly? I like MGS 1,2 and 3. I saw nothing particularly interesting about Death Stranding. I've seen friends playing it and still didn't really look that interesting.

He didn't really want to make MGS4 and MGS5 and then still made successful games. Death Stranding franchise is one of the "games that he is well known for" and it is most def not 20+ years old. Dont see your point.

> He didn't really want to make MGS4 and MGS5 and then still made successful games

MGS4 and MGS5 were successful but I don't think they were really that good compared to the other games. I am certainly not alone when it comes to thinking that.

The vast majority of praise goes to MGS2 and 3 these days. I think the original MGS should get more praise as it has the better story and at the time it really pushed what was possible.

> Death Stranding franchise is one of the "games that he is well known for" and it is most def not 20+ years old.

It isn't nearly as well respected as MGS 1-3. Metal Gear Solid 3 came out in 2004.

> Dont see your point.

The point is that Kojima work these days isn't nearly as much of a draw as it once was. If fans of the original MGS games like myself aren't that interested in his newer stuff that says quite a lot.

Metal Gear Solid as far as I am concerned ended after I finished 3.

To add on to what you're saying: he didn't really want to make MGS3 either. I believe he said in a Game Informer interview from 2001 that he wanted 2 to be the final chapter. I might be getting my source wrong.

> something that people talk about for years on

In the case of MGS4 and MGS5, because they're weirdly horny... Like, MGS5 was a good game, but you can't tell me that Kojima doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about bikini clad snipers.

Which is probably fine because the target demographic for those games probably loves bikini clad snipers

I think the other trademark is Kojima, when he's not being weirdly horny, is just "supernatural and weird". Like the other stuff with the floating boy/psycho mantis, man on fire, parasite unit. When you've got the weirdly horny and supernatural mashed together, it's either a Kojima game or some variant of Biohazard (Resident Evil).

My overriding thought would be, ridiculously convoluted story, which maybe-sorta kinda works by some insane internal logic. More like the author thought X would be cool, with no thought of downstream ramifications to a coherent plot.

If you have never seen this summary of the Metal Gear series, buckle up: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aaLiLRVeaZA

If it fits in 6 minutes it's not so convoluted, there's a guy who made a (10 hour?) video trying to explain all the lore and story of Destiny 1 and Destiny 2 (and all their various DLC/paid seasons). And the guy who made this apparently lost interest towards the end of Destiny 2 as a live service game so there's easily another 2-3 hours of content covering the final beats of the story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzBmOeYmN_M

But I agree the overall story/timeline of all MGS games taken as a whole is really wild. It's definitely quite something.

People don’t talk about quite much, when they talk about MGSV they talk about how insanely good of a stealth action game it is.

I was top 1000 for a while in the base-invasion mode of MGSV in the EU. That mode was basically a low-budget little tacked-on multiplayer that kept the core-gameplay and I spent hundreds of hours on it.

MGSV Metal Gear Online (the _other_ tacked-on multiplayer) was also great, but very unreliable netcode made it frustrating.

I wish someone would just take that game engine and make another good game on it. I _almost_ bought metal gear survive on the engine alone, that is how good it is.

it's funny, as someone who's never played the games and only seen them mentioned by friends or online, the bikini clad snipers have not come up once

I haven't played 4 (couldn't get past the cutscenes), but ah... Quiet is definitely front and centre in 5 at a certain point in the storyline, very embarrassingly so.

> I mean every time that Kojima made a game it turned out to be something that people talk about for years on. But the second it gets slightly more ambitious investors get their panties in the knot about it even though throughout history Kojima's products made a massive return.

Death Stranding 2 didn't do all that well. I don't think his games after MGS3 are as highly regarded.

Surprised Valve didn't try to step in. There was a comment from a former Valve employee that they had tried to recruit Kojima for an earlier project (probably Death Stranding) but got outbid.

Probably got outbid again. I love valve's business model/strategy/ethics, but its undeniable that a tradeoff for not being beholden to increasing shareholder value is that you often have less resources than your competitors for making big moves like this, since youre not raising capital from shareholders

I imagine the problem isn't Valve's cash on hand but just their willingness to spend it.

I imagine every publisher in the games industry dropped whatever they were doing the second they heard Kojima's game was on the market. Happy to see the project found its funding!

Talk about an unforced error on Sony's part

Maaaaaan! Just a few days ago, I saw... the right video game console... "Hitachi"

and then I saw... how video games used to be...

(1985 - 1991)

https://youtu.be/UovXq7smRwQ

https://youtu.be/WwltLEe-QxQ

https://youtu.be/x98ZH03tTno

https://youtu.be/ATaAyqTnJDE

But, yes you may be correct, i "didn't remember their 'Bugs'"...maybe too much of a "Lag"-something. Enjoy your nearing Weekend, regards... (-:

I'm not so sure about that. Death Stranding 2 was expensive and didn't do all that well.

Give them hell, Kojima. I will buy PHYSINT on any platform that has the guts to release it.

who actually owns the physint IP — kojima productions or sony? if sony paid for preproduction that handoff gets messy fast

Kojima owns the IP, they also own Death Stranding, unlike other partnerships where Sony owned the IP.

decima was sony's though — xbox port means new engine, that's the real delay

No, Guerrilla Games. The engine also already runs on virtually every platform, including the Xbox and PC, but also phones.

Even though Guerilla Games is currently owned by Playstation Studios, they are still effectively an independent studio.

Microsoft, otoh, owns like half a dozen engines, uses none of them, and licenses none of them. The only way I'd see a engine swap happening is if Kojima somehow swung a deal to license the newest version of the Doom engine.

Nearly no chance idTech is being used for anything outside of the few franchises that leverage it, as modern idTech versions are mainly geared towards just those FPS games. id Software has been decimated too in the recent layoffs, and there's questions over the future of idTech

What a shame too. Quake Wars on idTech performed incredibly well for such large maps and so many players. The vehicles were also fun to drive.

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