Comment by mlsu | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mlsu | Hacker News Reader

I think Tao correctly sees the problem with AI. It’s not that it is ineffective or has weaknesses. It’s that it’s not human.

Like, it ought to be enough to say that the problem with AI is that it’s not human. Unfortunately, we live in a world where many (most?) people have willingly put away the childish things, so as to achieve some goal.

The problem is that the point of life is to explore and have fun and have human to human experiences. I think math is probably fun because you’re working on hard problems with your collaborators.

It should be obvious to everyone, as it is to children, that the point of life isn’t the goal, the point is the experience one has of living. They say that when you die the only thing you lose is the current moment. The problem with AI is that it doesn’t have a current moment to live in or to lose, it’s an inanimate thing. So, it should be obvious to everyone that the problem with the AI is that it’s not human. Alas.

I think everyone wants the experience of living, but it's not a great one without money, and money commonly requires full-time work until financial freedom. But that point usually comes at 65.

So it's not that only children appreciate life, it's just that adults have to deal with that whole money problem, while children don't.

I take a 8 hour work day over being subjected to more or less random weirdness from "adults" every day. IOW, not everyone has this rose-tinted view of their childhood. I still remember adults saying "you will once look back at your childhood and miss the times". Turns out that was totally and utterly wrong. I even have bad dreams about my school/childhood time every few months. I am sooooo glad that time of being subjected to the will of others is over.

I miss the 70's when I was in high school. I had a great time. It's one reason why I drive a '72 Dodge. I feel like a kid in it every time.

I think the problem is that some people do genuinely have a great childhood, or another phase of life (university is another one), while others have a terrible childhood or another phase of life, and people who have one fail to understand those who have the other.

To add to that I think people can have a rose-tinted view and deny what they felt at the time.

> I am sooooo glad that time of being subjected to the will of others is over.

I mean, I am absolutely glad about that.

I'm not so glad that I'm now subjected to the will of others on a far longer time horizon.

I have no problem with not being on top of a hierarchy. But having no agency at all was a horrible way of existance.

I agree that AI isn't human, but why does that necessarily mean it's a problem? The analogy I use is watching an octopus juggle - just because it's better than a human can ever be, definitionally, doesn't mean it's a problem or replacing people.

I think the impulse to use AI to replace human effort in cases where it's not drudgery, like art, math, etc is the issue, more than the fact that AI isn't human. Let AI do AI things, and humans do human things. I honestly hope that when everything shakes out we have a lot more room in the world for people doing things that are uniquely human, or amazing new collaborations that let humans do things they've never been able to do before.

Isn't the problem that without exploration we won't actually get new goals e.g. can AI come up with new math conjectures instead of "just" solving existing ones.

Yeah - I think he’s worried that we have a tool that’s almost an oracle that can just get straight to the heart of a given problem.

The problems aren’t always that interesting in their own right. But the quest to solve them is often what drives the invention of new techniques.

We ultimately got the Langlands program and a large amount of algebraic number theory out of attempts to solve fermat’s last theorem. A “clever” approach using techniques from the 1800s wouldn’t have been anywhere near as fruitful for mathematics as a discipline.

"The problem with dogs is that they're not human."

You can make this case for pretty much anything? Are cars human? Are excavators human? The universe does not exist to cater to the human experience, it just is. Not everything we do in it has to be for the greater enlightenment or whatnot, sometimes you just need to get something done.

To be human is like being the training so much more than the execution. Like the parallel post's game where the speed of light is 5km/h, we always try to but never reach true "perfection" (setting aside the discourse what that even would be). Some overfit, some stop short of being good...

> the point of life is to explore and have fun and have human to human experiences

To do all those things, I need money.

To do the first one perhaps, although how many have really explored locally in full. To have fun is all dependent on your view on life and have human to human experiences can be had any time you step outside the door. Just talk to people and be friendly.

people did all of those things just fine w/ out money. Or adequately enough, anyway.

what lifestyle do you think you need or deserve?

evolution doesn't remember those who lived well, only those who carried forth

> the point of life is to explore and have fun and have human to human experiences

Not really. The point of life is successful reproduction. Because without it, we cease to exist. It wasn't that long ago when humans spent their entire lives struggling to live and protect their children.

In my experience, reproduction and child rearing is fun, and it also is a human to human experience.

Having children does make people happy.

These affairs remind me of A Timbered Choir by Wendell Berry, and your comment strikes a similar chord.

Excerpts:

Even while I dreamed I prayed that what I saw was only fear and no foretelling, for I saw the last known landscape destroyed for the sake of the objective, the soil bludgeoned, the rock blasted. Those who had wanted to go home would never get there now.

...

The races and the sexes now intermingled perfectly in pursuit of the objective. the once-enslaved, the once-oppressed were now free to sell themselves to the highest bidder and to enter the best paying prisons in pursuit of the objective, which was the destruction of all enemies, which was the destruction of all obstacles, which was the destruction of all objects, which was to clear the way to victory, which was to clear the way to promotion, to salvation, to progress, to the completed sale, to the signature on the contract, which was to clear the way to self-realization, to self-creation, from which nobody who ever wanted to go home would ever get there now, for every remembered place had been displaced; the signposts had been bent to the ground and covered over.

Every place had been displaced, every love unloved, every vow unsworn, every word unmeant to make way for the passage of the crowd of the individuated, the autonomous, the self-actuated, the homeless with their many eyes opened toward the objective which they did not yet perceive in the far distance, having never known where they were going, having never known where they came from

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