Comment by naishoya | Hacker News Reader

Comment by naishoya | Hacker News Reader

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Brian José Morales García: A 25-year-old U.S. citizen born in Denver, Colorado, was wrongfully deported to Mexico following a traffic stop in Texas, despite possessing a birth certificate and other identifying documents. His legal team filed a case in federal court to secure his return.

https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/us-citizen-wrong...

https://deportation-research.buffett.northwestern.edu/us-cit...

Individuals Detained and Deported Lorenzo Palma Roberto Dominquez Andres Robles Esteban Tiznado Mark Lyttle Jhon Ocampo

So - if the argument hinges on an insistance of 'El Salvador' as a destination of malicious intent, probably no. But if being illegally deported while being a US citizen and put through strenuous and harmful conditions in the process fits the request; there are several who have first hand experience with being brown and American in the extreme.

And it's not their first rodeo: https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/blog/ice-deport-u...

I was not making an argument, just asking for any factual basis to the parent comment. I guess that is deserving of 5 downvotes.

> I think they forgot about that, thank god. All the innocent citizens we sent there are still being tortured daily, but that somehow lost their interest. God forbid they remember before the midterms and ruin more lives for a stunt…

But thank you for providing other cases, I had heard of the first but not the others you mentioned. From reading your sources, these appear to be collated from the last 2 decades.

The issue with the "i'm just asking questions" is that it is overused by disingenuous (i started writing nefarious but i think you can be nefarious but mean good, whereas people who do this _always_ mean to trick other humans) people. So nowadays, if you want to go ask a question to go further on a topic because you're interested in it, you need to add a preamble that explain. See:

"How did ancient egyptian managed to cut rock that cleanly without modern tools?"

vs

"I'm very interested in old tools and techniques, do any of you have resources about how Egyptian used to cut granite?"

Sadly, this is the state of the internet, because some people can't be genuine (probably think it's a weakness or something dumb), now everybody assume the worst of everybody else.

I hear what you're saying, but I don't think it really applies to a question asking for the veracity of a previously stated claim, especially when the claim is actually false. I think there is more than enough bad things the government actually does wrt immigration enforcement, we don't need to start making things up.

In that case, it vastly more productive to say : 'I do believe this is false/poorly presented/a gross generalisation, and would like you to prove me wrong by citing sources'. At least you do not hide behind the "I'm just asking questions", which read as disingenuous like I said, mostly because it's overused rethoric.

i think this is an isolated demand for rigor, my way of approaching it was fine, and it is only due to the political valence of the comment i'm replying to that i got downvoted and flagged. take care

a cursory view of whataboutism's... i mean whimsicalism's comment stream has the effect of negating any declarations of serious intent. This is standard practice, take issue with a valid if overstated perspective on a technicality, insist that the current state of the market and technology is acting as it should, and that continued disregard for the abuses/negative outcomes/deteriorating conditions will be solved by further application of the current techniques.

The downvotes are perhaps the intended outcome. I might say that I didn't know this when i first responded, but that would be untrue.

I engaged in exactly that manner, fully informed of the observable tendencies for engagement. There's no need to try and advise an account as if this 'just asking questions' was a misstep. There is ample substance showing that this account repeatedly declines to take the HN recommended approaches to polite interaction.

The last example was an article published in 2021, and does cover about 70 possible cases during the 2015 to 2020 period. It would seem that this misbehaviour is neither new, nor restricted to big T's residency in the WH periods. Apparently we have had this happening to a lessor degree for the duration of the existence of ICE, and this may be because of a shift in oversight, training, and general legal competency. It does appear however that under present and past stints the frequency and severity of this problem are demonstrably worse.

Having myself grown up actually within sight of the US|Mexican border - I could see it in the distance from the driveway and kitchen window of one of my childhood homes, and from the schoolbus every weekday when i lived at an different home before that - I am perhaps a bit more sensitive to this issue, having seen the differences in enforcement agents attitudes and behaviour in the years since the peak of both the Guatemalan and Nicaraguan conflicts. Although I no longer live physically close to that space; my father, my extended family and childhood friends still do, and so many of them are at risk daily of something disastrous happening because they appear less white than the color palette that ICE appears to use as it's operating manual.

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