Hacker News Reader

Comment by hermannj314 | Hacker News Reader

I am first hearing about this group today, but here is some context:

https://www.state.gov/releases/office-of-the-spokesperson/20...

Apparently they provide the digital infrastructure for violent Antifa cells and because of a 9/11 related executive order, the A/I is able to be branded a sponsor of terrorism.

I guess this makes it a crime to give them money or provide aid to them (if you are a US citizen).

EDIT: who is downvoting and why? The 2nd sentence in the PR says "Autistici/Inventati (A/I Collective) is an Italy-based extremist group that builds and operates the digital infrastructure for violent Antifa cells and other far-left militants across the world" Are you mad that I quote the article or mad that you disagree with Trump? In either case, why are you downvoting me exactly? I am genuinely curious.

View on HN

More boogie man bullshit from our fascist admin.

> from our fascist admin

In what way is Trump socialist? Even if you think he's trying to reduce the US to one race (presumably one of the European nationalities? Which is insane to think on its own), he's actively opposed to socialism and generally opposed to government control of industries. People using the term fascism have no idea what it actually means.

Says you. This is so much word-salad I got diarrhea. To be a fascist you don't need to exist in opposition to a socialism. The two ideologies exist independently of each other. This take is just ignorant. Show me anywhere, where any scholar, on either side of, inside or outside of our current iteration of the Overton window, bundles socialism and fascism as codependent. Not a single mention of "socialism" in the 14 points of fascism.

Why don't you enlighten us then if you have some bEtTeR definition of fascism?

Fascists are, by definition, socialist. You cannot be a free market fascist, because then the party wouldn't have power and the people wouldn't have a shared direction to move. Calling any modern figure on the right a fascist is a deep misunderstanding of the word and its history.

I'm not sure what the 14 points of fascism are but it appears to be a modern work that came out in the 90's. I would encourage you to read books from the time period; the Nazis were very clear the purpose of the national socialist party was to create a socialist economy, and they believed a "shared blood" (as they called it, meaning genetically similar population) was needed for a successful socialist economy (otherwise people would disagree on culture and politics too much to have shared ownership over industry and society). This was the core motivation behind their party and why they made the decisions they did. I'm unaware of serious historians who don't, at least partially, think this way.

Also I'm sorry but this whole thread is a bit off-topic and I'm not going to keep responding. I would encourage you to continue to research the topic though

> Fascists are, by definition, socialist.

By what definition?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism

"It is characterized by a hatred for liberalism, socialism, democracy, internationalism and the parliamentary system;" / "It opposes communism, socialism, pluralism, individual rights and equality, and democratic government" / "Fascist nationalism is reactionary in that it entails implacable hostility to socialism and feminism" / "Fascism, at any rate the German version, is a form of capitalism that borrows from Socialism just such features as will make it efficient for war purposes... It is a planned system geared to a definite purpose, world-conquest, and not allowing any private interest, either of capitalist or worker, to stand in its way."

Even Mussolini named fascism as something standing against socialism.

So, what definition are you thinking of?

> I'm unaware of serious historians who don't, at least partially, think this way.

So simply cite the serious historians who think that?

I think people are downvoting you for several reasons:

- Taking administration propaganda pieces at face value (such as the batshit insane page you linked to)

- Referring to "violent antifa cells". That's the spin Trump has been trying to put on the groups of people who have been resisting fascism. (Do you know what "antifa" stands for?)

Thanks for explaining, I will work on my approach, I didn't think I said anything that presented I agree with or believed the PR, only that it was context for why the A/I situation.

Yes I am well aware of what antifa means.

One can be anti-fascist and violent. https://www.splcenter.org/resources/reports/better-way/

Of course. But that's not what we have in the present moment, excepting a few instances here and there.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com