Hacker News Reader

Comment by bee_rider | Hacker News Reader

I think when people use NPC as an insult (it is a dumb insult in my opinion), they are looking at it from the point of view of a player, someone outside the game who understands that the NPC is scripted (this is a silly and egotistical way of looking at the world). This post is looking from it from the point of view of the NPC instead, as if that was a living entity one could be.

View on HN

IMO, people using NPC as an insult have it backwards. What they mean is that you receive tasks and ideas from them to carry out for cash. That's what players do.

The blacksmith tasks the protagonist to get a Dragon's Teeth or whatever and pay 100 Golds in return(never played TES, sorry if this isn't a good example). The player has no control over the blacksmith; the blacksmith is in full control of the situation. The blacksmith is an NPC. The protagonist is the player. But then some thinks the blacksmith must be the player, I suppose. The fact that this sometimes seem to happen almost puzzles me.

No what people using NPC mean is lack of agency. And NPC in a game doesn't have agency and can only do what others have intended for him to do. The player on the other hand does have agency. You can choose to do what the game wants you to do or you can choose to not do it. You can choose to play a different game.

... this whole NPC thing is starting to feel to me like it might have been a simple "no U" rebuttal. NPCs pay player for completed tasks. This model resemble typical employer-employee relationships. The agency argument makes sense if someone mentally accepted this fact, and then tried to spin that around in spite.

right, this comes close to rejecting the frame, which I think you could fairly do.

viewing npc as a category of person is inherently an ego driven, narcissistic way of looking at things. It is a viewpoint that lacks a theory of mind.

This essay implicitly supposes that the npc has a mind + motivations and that those motivations are more important to the npc than the player character. I'd extend it to say that if you are an npc you are a player character; you're just in a different game. Village Blacksmith Simulator, where you make horshoes, fend off pickpockets and sometimes a hero's dragon fight flattens your shop and you start over.

The flaw is assuming the player character is always the same.

Ironically the people who view others as NPC (and say so in a disparaging way) are likely more one dimensional themselves. I think you're spot on with the narcissism viewpoint.

> I think when people use NPC as an insult (it is a dumb insult in my opinion)

Probably not totally relevant, but a several years ago I was out for one of my best friend's very low-key bachelor party (just a few friends/family members bar-hopping, no strip clubs). We went to a bar that was recommended by one of us and the dude who greeted us was so insanely charismatic that I assumed he was someone my buddy knew and was this later joiner to the party or something. I asked my friend, "Do you know this guy?" and, you kinda have to know his humour, but he replied, "No, he's an NPC." He was not insulting the guy (in fact I think he may have even said "non-playable character" in full) just saying, "Nope, not with us," and ya... I laughed... like, really hard. Needed recovery time.

I don't know the point I'm trying to make.

> I don't know the point I'm trying to make.

That made chuckle! Not to the point of needing recovery time, but still. Thank you for sharing the story. I can’t help you get to the point you were looking for, but I enjoyed it nonetheless.

A chuckle is the best I could have hoped for! I should have clarified that this was well before "NPC" was being thrown around by even non-gamers.

It is a fun story. Not everything needs to have a point!

If the guy was incredibly charismatic and managed to sort of join the group despite lacking a properly developed backstory, maybe he was a DMPC (dungeon master player character).

"I think when people use NPC as an insult (it is a dumb insult in my opinion)"

It's a great insult, because it is usually used to describe someone whose viewpoint is basically a brainwashed and braindead pre-programmed one (either through upbringing or other things) and clearly demonstrating a lack of self-conscious critical thought.

It's just "sheeple" for this decade. The hoi polloi. Same as it ever was.

Is that the one where Curly gets trapped inside an elaborate, self-made cage of shower pipes?

It’s funny, because one might argue that a lack of awareness of, or empathy for the fact that other people also have thoughts and autonomy also demonstrates a lack of self-conscious critical thought.

Yet the NPC is the one who gives the player work. And meaning, in terms of the played character.

Right, and there is very good reason you need to care about a lot of things. That Dragon will burn your village and kill you. You better be concerned about that - you will die.

Your life isn't scripted. If have the option to not ignore the dragon. You can work with your town to setup a watch and places to flee to when the dragon is coming (even if only 50% make it that is an improvement). You can as a town fund adventures to kill the dragon. You can move to a town where there are no dragons. There are probably other options that I haven't thought of.

You should not ignore politics. You need to understand the trade offs. You should plan for what is happening. Russia is at war with Ukraine - things like that can happen to you as well. You should understand enough to have an informed decision on how much to prepare... Maybe you need to build a bomb shelter, maybe not, but you should know in time to build one.

This sort of a anxious hyper-vigilance is exactly the sort of main character bs you should let go of though. Spend some time with your kids or whatever. You actually can't plan and prepare for a hypothetical war with russia.

Not even with a weekly boardgame night of Axis and Allies, or at least Risk?

If it's me against Russia, no, I can't plan and prepare. - ALONE. Ukraine spent several years after 2014 planning for another war with Russia and there had reasonable success despite being in a apparently much worse situation. Ukraine is a large enough collection of people that they could usefully plan and prepare.

Which is part of my point. Don't live alone. You live in a community of people. You need to engage with your community to prepare for that dragon.

That doesn't mean don't go play with your kids or whatever. Do that too. But also prepare for life in ways that you can prepare because you live with other people

> Don't live alone

For some people, the reality is that this has simply not been possible; and people have died and not been discovered for years precisely because of this[0]. The most extreme example was not being discovered for 42 years[1].

> You need to engage with your community to prepare for that dragon.

The delineating aspect of this is the "it takes a village" moniker. In Ireland, for example, someone can have lived in the same community for 10+ years and still be a blow-in[2]. The reality is: Sometimes, you cannot force the community to engage back with you.

0 - https://www.awesomeinventions.com/people-died-bodies-not-dis...

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Hedviga_Golik

2 - https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/rosita-bola...

>You actually can't plan and prepare for a hypothetical war with russia.

You can, in fact, do this. Just because you prefer to be helpless doesn't mean that's the only option.

i'd thought an npc wud mov out of town to a town with no dragons.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com