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Comment by OroPla | Hacker News Reader

German here. A "Verschlimmbesserung" is something that makes one part better and another part worse. If it only makes things worse you don't need a German word for it, you can just call it worse.

For things that were intended good, but ended up bad, there's an English idiom: the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

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Not a German but Duden disagrees with you [0]: "etwas in der Absicht, es zu verbessern, schlechter machen".

[0]: https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/verschlimmbessern

German here, this is the right definition, trying to improve something but ending up making it worse.

that's not disagreeing at all (american partial german, partial pole)

It is a different meaning from that in the parent comment by OroPla.

Yes, that's the correct definition.

I still agree with parent’s definition more because it also covers the ironic, sarcastic case, as well as the inherent ambiguity of the word ‘besser’. Plainly put, ‘better’ for who?

If you just say it as a logical series of making it worse while making it better you miss that the intention of the ‘better’ is the first place wasn’t even the intention to make it better for the user.

But you rarely only worsen it in every direction.

Both my memory (as a German) and Duden disagree with you.

> etwas in der Absicht, es zu verbessern, schlechter machen > > https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/verschlimmbessern

"Making somewhere worse with the intention to make it better".

My understanding is that a Verschlimmbesserung stems from a genuine intent to improve something, even though it ultimately has the opposite effect.

I don't remember hearing or using it in this context. It's pretty rare that the goal was to make something worse and if the outcome is only bad, you can just call it bad, right? The word is only needed to communicate that there were good and bad outcomes.

A Verschlimmbesserung of the definition of Verschlimmbesserung.

Just calling it bad does not include the intent of improving it. Verschlimmbesserung does.

Why do you change something if not to make it better, though? Trying to improve things is implicit.

Of course there's many reasons to make something worse intentionally. Revenge for example.

The point of Verschlimmbesserung is to show your good intentions to improve something failed.

Improvement = Verbesserung

Worsening = Verschlimmerung

Worsening because you tried to improve = Verschlimmbesserung

Ask your local carpenter or plumber how many of their jobs have to do with people trying to fix a damage and make it worse

Worsen it from the perspective of the judge, not from the person doing it.

> For things that were intended good, but ended up bad, there's an English idiom:

Better is the enemy of good.

Old Italian proverb: "il meglio è nemico del bene"

Shakespeare, King Lear: "Striving to better, oft we mar what's well".

It's kind of like the road to hell, which is famously paved with good intentions.

> Better is the enemy of good.

That's not the same at all. The idea there is that if you try to make the best, you will stop advancing towards good, not that you will worsen it.

I think that's a subtle Verschlimmbesserung of the original definition.

As opposed to Vershittification, the perfect union of terms from the two languages.

Verscheißifizierung

Yeah, no, it means wanting to make things better but ending up making them worse.

No, just no.

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