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Comment by rdevsrex | Hacker News Reader

There is no human right to have a US visa interview; everything is a privilege that can be withdrawn.

Agreed. People seem to hold views that getting visas to the US is a human right.

It’s no fun, but these are adults (and often very privileged adults) that decided to move to a new country for more upside at the cost of no residency.

Conflating this with “inhumane” is just a basic misunderstanding of immigration and the contract these people signed up for.

Very uncomfortable, yet a risk these people took, and hopefully a conscious one.

You are both conflating technical correctness with morality

You are conflating morality with proper governance. Democratic government must enact the will of the citizen body, even if immoral in some frameworks.

So it can be inhumane then, by your definition?

Sure. Unless you prefer autocratic rule by a moral paragon, democracy involves doing what people want, not what is moral. Often what is nominally moral is not good for the country or its people.

I dont think the moral/legal conflation is even the main tension here.

I think this distinction would help as well.

   Inhumane != human rights violation.

Both of these things can be true at the same time:

   1. It can be inhumane to halt someone's visa application

   2. Visa applicants have no human right to have their application processed

One side hammers the first point because they disagree with the government. The other side hammers the second point because they agree with the government.

Everyone is right, except for the implication that their point disproves the other side's point.

Democratic government must also allow the citizen body to voice their displeasure with the activity of the government, and to give their reasons for that displeasure

They do, it's called voting. And you also have the right to voice your support.

You also have the right to voice your disapproval, which as the point of my reply to a comment that seemed to indicate otherwise

> People seem to hold views that getting visas to the US is a human right.

Come on, there's nothing to be gained by misrepresenting people's views.

The argument is a simple one: if you are currently within the immigration process you should be able to move through that process in a timely manner, with clear communication of expectations. Freezing appointments is a political hack: they're not changing the law, they're not altering what anyone is entitled to. They're just leaving people in limbo.

You're saying "these people took a risk", and you're right. But that doesn't mean we can't criticize the people ensuring their bet is a losing one in the least moral way possible.

Here is what hvb2 actually said:

> “Just ‘putting a pause’ on people with existing appointments with no answer for when they might resume is.... Inhumane”

And now you're saying:

> “if you are currently within the immigration process you should be able to move through that process in a timely manner, with clear communication of expectations.”

Sure it sucks. But do you understand there is no right to have this visa application interview nor a yes/no decision in a timely manner? Applying for a visa is a privilege. You aren't being denied some human right if the process is interrupted.

We’re talking about two different things and I don’t understand why you’re conflating them.

“It isn’t a right” and “it’s immoral” are not mutually exclusive statements. No, there is no human right to a visa application response. That doesn’t mean that leaving people in indefinite limbo is morally right.

moral != inhumane. It's impossible to have a discussion if you equivocate.

Right is a moral category, not a legal one.

Actually, there is. I am a bit tired of correcting these types of misunderstandings that people have. Unreasonable delay, unlawful witholding, arbitrary and capricious are all well defined terms in the law and courts have routinely held and even forced the government to take action (i.e., do their job) when they just pause or suspend things. For a few recent decisions read this:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/72218277/catholic-legal...

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/72369535/dorcas-interna...

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/72494270/ivanov-v-trump...

> There is no human right to have a US visa interview; everything is a privilege that can be withdrawn.

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue with this strawman.

No one in the thread is claiming it's a "human right".

Since we’re doing straw man arguments, there’s not a single Republican in charge of the U.S. government today that cares about the inalienable rights given to you in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

We the people will be reminding them who is actually in charge.

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