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Comment by ryandrake | Hacker News Reader

For work-from-home, I can't emphasize enough how much of a game changer it is to have a physically separate building for your work, especially if you have a family with kids and noise and pets and things. Working from a spare bedroom, even one without a bed / outfitted as an office, is just not my thing. Even if your family "knows the rules" and let you work in peace. It subjectively still "feels like you're home". With a separate building, I can do a short walking commute and take those 10 seconds to "get into work mindset." And, once I'm out there, it can be a hermetically sealed, zero-distraction zone.

If you are lucky and fortunate enough to live in an actual house with land, and work (or are thinking about working) remotely, seriously consider investing in an actual separate building for your office.

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If what you want is an office you can go to which is not in your home, it seems like it would be ever so much simpler to go live near your actual office, which your employer already pays for, than to move far enough away from everything that you can afford to buy a piece of property, build an office on it, and then have to deal with all the extra driving a remote lifestyle implies.

In my opinion it's commuting to the office which sucks, and not working in the office: I had a couple years where I walked in to work every day, and that was basically ideal. (It was, ironically, a job I started while living on the opposite side of the country: I then moved to a place about a mile from the office, quite a pleasant walk through the heart of the city.)

Everyone has different opinions about this stuff, but I for one found _working_ in the office to absolutely be the worst part. And since Covid, my workplace has torn down old buildings and reduced square footage per employee, so if I went back to the office it would be even worse.

Do you work at Microsoft or is this a broader trend?

It’s been a broader trend of businesses downsizing the square footage when they can and when they can’t they start to mandate in office to justify the cost.

I don't know how broad the trend is, but I am a contractor for the US government. I'm told that agencies are actually required by law to reduce square footage. So when they tore down my old building (which absolutely needed to go), they simply could not as a matter of law build a new building with the same square footage even if they had the budget.

>live near your actual office, which your employer already pays for,

I've been in the game for almost 40 years now, and I'll say I've never had an office paid for by my employer that is as nice as that toughshed. I've never been in a dedicated office with a door, except when working from home.

Edit: ProTip: If you are doing concrete, rent a "Mud Mixer". Me an the kids were able to pour the 8x12x5" (130 bags of 80lbs) in well under a day, probably would have been even less if we had moved the bagged concrete to the pour site before the pour happened rather than as we were pouring.

I would not go out of my way to live near where I work when my employer can fire me on a whim.

If the office was in a place where I could reasonably expect to find other jobs as well, then that could be part of my consideration, but I would never choose to live somewhere based primarily on whatever my current job is.

That's a good point. The office I mentioned was located in downtown Seattle, a city where jobs are plentiful and I have many connections, so moving there was an easy choice.

Or where you may choose to work elsewhere on a whim. (Never mind that a partner and/or kids may place constraints.)

> In my opinion it's commuting to the office which sucks, and not working in the office

I'm not a fan of commuting either but for me it's definitely the working in an office that sucks

Maybe if it wasn't an open office bullpen style place but I've only worked in places without private or semi private offices, or even cubes

My office suuuucks. All the actual machines are in a dedicated space so we have to hot desk and remote in even if we come to the office. There’s not even cubicles, just rows of desks. I would go out of my way NOT to work there.

> it seems like it would be ever so much simpler to go live near your actual office

This constrains the companies you can work at to ones with a local office, if you do not want to move house. If you want to live within walking distance of many companies, you could easily be looking at paying millions of dollars for a poor quality house.

There is a happy medium if you like offices (see below): co-working spaces.

> it's commuting to the office which sucks, and not working in the office

Most company offices are fucking horrific - open plan, atrocious coffee, noisy, full of people who won’t stay home when they are sick.

> In my opinion it's commuting to the office which sucks, and not working in the office

Nah. Other people are selfish.

Shitty open floor plans, so that other peoples drive bys become distrations

Meeting rooms that are set up to hold only 3 people, because everyone wanted smaller rooms for their 1 on 1s, mean that most meeting rooms are now too small for you to gather your team in. Which leads to people having team meetings at their desks and goes back to point 1.

Crappy equipment. I work at a large enough bank that you will have heard of it, even outside the US. You get a 1080p monitor at your hot desk. After upgrading to a 1440p over a decade ago when those cheap Korean screens came out, and having a 4k for many years now, I struggle to go back to a 1080p. Applications have so much chrome because of the larger monitors.

Hot desks can fuck off too. Come into the office so you can sit with your team. Oh, but not everyone, you guys have to go to 6 rows down.

Yeah the worst thing about working from within your house... bathroom, coffee, anything at all that necessitates going out of the room entails a major context switch for the most inane reasons and conversations.

In this case they'd still have to go inside to go to the bathroom. :/

I've got a bathroom in my out-building office, too, and a small kitchen with a sink, coffee maker, toaster, fridge, and so on. The limit is money to spend and land area to build on :)

to be honest, having to walk inside to use the bathroom or refill your cup of coffee seems like a nice way to stand up and get the blood flowing again + breathe some fresh air.

I agree with that, but I often wonder whether maintaining a separation for longer periods just leads to a bigger backlog of these topics building up and making it worse when it does happen.

Yeah, second that. I made my office separated from the main house and it's incredible.

We bought an old house and did a full remodel and planned for an office and a work kitchen (my wife is a chef) separated from the main house (and each other).

It's been a game changer

Incredible!

I've been WFH since Covid and, when it first happened, my office was in a finished attic that was not well conditioned. I like it warmer so I didn't mind, and the lack of comfort for others meant I enjoyed more solo time.

These days, I may as well not even have a door. I put auto-shutting hinges on it, but that failed as reminder/deterrent long ago.

We've got a 10x20 out back that was supposed to be my workshop, but it's filled with all the things most Americans put in their garages - because we don't have one. I'm seriously considering a deep purge and converting at least 1/2 of to an office; the distractions and context switching are disastrous.

> "get into work mindset."

I have multiple Spotify playlists for this. What's neat is that I also listen to them for fun, but they also allow me to get into a work mindset.

So for me it's more of a mental walk.

Head to the shed:

https://www.idler.co.uk/article/sheds-in-the-time-of-lockdow...

The perfect work-from-home office is a tethered balloon. Change my mind.

We built a new garage with an upstairs ADU when I started working from home in 2018. It is indeed a game-changer, and when we no longer need the space we can use it for a rental, guest house, etc.

ADU: Accessory dwelling unit.

<https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/originating-underwriting/...>

Hmm. I have a decent shed outside my house and my current office (in the house) is decent but when kids get home it gets a bit harder.

I wonder if I can convert an existing shed...

It's smarter (and cheaper!) to live by yourself because your entire house is distraction-free.

I visited a friend's apartment and he was going on and on about how everyone around him seems to be getting exploding dogs, so I think the key is to live by yourself in a house separated from others.

But down that path lies a cabin innawoods.

This is correct. There needs to be some outside air in between you and people, not just a wall.

A moat would also be nice.

> exploding dogs

I've heard of bomb disposal dogs, but this is an angle I hadn't previously considered

Even better, avoid making my friends so you won't receive pesky texts asking you to hangout.

In fact, probably better to just put your desk in the bathroom for maximum efficiency!

Stepping back a bit, if you are working remotely that's likely a proxy for an increased likelihood of job loss due to AI.

Why start and invest in a construction project for a building that may not be staffed long term? Perhaps renting a small coworking space in town is the safer financial move. And have your employer pay for it.

> if you are working remotely that's likely a proxy for an increased likelihood of job loss due to AI.

only as likely as literally every other scenario. the difference is you can continue to use your backyard office for your new job

One could argue this will get at least 50% ROI if you’re forced to sell your home. It’s strictly illegal in most places to room someone in one of these, but I’m sure people do it all the time. It won’t go to waste.

in the post:

> I had tried coworking spaces but didn’t love the vibe or the idea of spending hours in a phone booth.

* Goes ahead and builds a $20k phone booth.

Fantastic.

Yeah, it does seem pretty excellent! Even if it's a relatively small room (105 square feet or something), if it's right in your back yard with all your own stuff (and no strangers immediately outside the room), that's pretty awesome. No commute, no monthly/annual fees or lease etc... Plus it can be repurposed for other stuff if needed (guest house? kids' play space? etc.)

> Perhaps renting a small coworking space in town is the safer financial move

The article states that in only 4 years it's already broken even vs renting a coworking space. Plus it is at least a theoretical bump to the property value (vs rent paid to coworking space which would be pure overhead)

FWIW, I worked fully remotely (pre COVID) and my employer at the time was willing to fully cover the costs of renting a coworking space.

Though I never specifically asked, I sincerely doubt they would have footed the bill to construct a detached building in my backyard that I could work from instead.

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