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Comment by QuantumNomad_ | Hacker News Reader

At least they don’t demand a bunch of extra tips. I’m European (well, Scandinavian, which some Europeans consider European and some don’t) and my rule of thumb is that if I go out I tip 10%.

If the service is extra good I might tip extra.

If the service is very bad (unreasonably slow, or staff forget or mix up the order in a significant way, or they are very rude), I tip 0%. Of course everyone can mess up things a little so it’s not like I immediately tip 0% just because of some minor thing. It has to be properly bad.

Also something I have learned from the Spanish is to always order something small and quick for the table even before we have decided what to eat. Then if it takes 40 minutes before the food comes it doesn’t matter that much compared to when you are starving for food. So this is a very neat trick that helps a lot to have a good experience even at slow places, and something I have started always doing.

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I have to ask, why are you tipping 10% before the service is extra good? I'm really against the idea that the company isn't responsible for paying their staff properly.

Setting a baseline of 10% just says to me that the restaurant owners can just pay their staff less. And if the server is having an off day or just didn't meet your particular standards then they're losing money.

I think it depends on location.

It would be a bizarre approach in Scandinavia because the consensus here is that companies must pay their employees a decent baseline salary -- which unions negotiate across the whole sector -- so there's no expectation of a tip by default.

But for much of the rest of the world, it's not a given that working conditions are as good.

I think in the Netherlands the general rule is to tip up to 10% depending how good the service was, unless it was excellent and you go higher. When drinking a couple coffees in a restaurant it is okay to tip with a single Euro for good service, even if that doesn't amount to 10%.

This is despite the unfortunate and rude trend of payment devices now offering a big dickover screen filled with obscene tip suggestions first (25% in a fucking chain fastfood place?), because with the decline of cash the old way of rounding up the bill dies out too.

This. Now you withdraw money at an ATM and it offers you to give a 25% tip.

People who are not used to tips (i.e. foreigners visiting the US) don't necessarily know when they should and when they shouldn't give a tip. When in doubt, should they or should they not tip 20%? The whole concept is just very weird.

There's always the zero button and I always mash it happily.

Please stop tipping unless the service is very good. Hell, the quality of the service could be reflected in the cost of the food (it is), and you don't need to tip at all.

Thank you, A Swede.

I also tip 10% in Europe unless I see a table/service charge added, and I will gladly stop if you say so

No one looks at the details of the bill, the wages are included in the cost

In France it's added in the cost of items - sometimes there is a mention of it somewhere on the menu.

service compris

If there's no service charge added explicitly then that amount is usually directly factored in the cost of the food and redistributed to the service staff. As far as I know there are currently no EU countries where tipping contributes towards salary.

However, contrary to what many might say, tipping has been a part of European culture for a very long time (especially in the UK, Germany and some Slavic countries). You won't offend basically anyone if you don't tip, since it's basically considered an extra thanks for the service, but small tips/round-ups are fairly common[0] and sadly somewhat important in countries with lower minimum wages or heavily seasonal tourism.

*That said*, while I have nothing against tips as a purely voluntary contribution, I'm of the idea that - regardless of traditions and customs - the push to de-normalize compulsory tips is of fundamental importance for establishing (and keeping) decent wages for staff.

[0]: from a few euros, up to 10%. The new 15/20/25% model is purely American and predatory in nature

I'm also Scandinavian (Norwegian), and I never tip when going out.

I can't think of any long-term outcome of a tipping culture that is efficient for the workers and employers, even if the amount the customer tipped was correlated with quality (the research I've read shows it's got more to do with looks). It is simply more efficient that both parties know what they are agreeing to up front when (1) the worker still has to go to work for 3 months when they resign and (2) the employer has to pay them (and their replacement) full wages during training.

It's definitely efficient for the worker. There's no employee tax or income tax on that money. The worker just gets the money directly.

There is, but they're all tax evaders.

Not if there's no tax on tips.

Tips are taxed in Norway: https://snl.no/tips#:~:text=Tips%20er%20skattepliktig%20for%... Only a single digit percentage of customers pay with cash, so evasion is impractical.

It should also be said that restaurant staff in Norway make a much better living than in the US, both relative to other Norwegian workers and their US counterparts.

I never tip because if burger with fries costs €15 then we had a fucking legal contract that you'll give me a burger with fries for €15, don't be like "uuuuuuh sir I'm going to ruin your evening by asking you to pay more at the checkout time because reasons".

I tip (live in US) as we are shamed into it, but I find the relationship between the customer and staff subservient and dehumanizing. The service folks must do the dance and check on you every 5 minutes ("Are we doing good here, hon?) while I in turn must come up with a fake smile and a thumbs up. What else am I gonna do? It's all kinds of weird but unlikely to change.

A couple of decades ago I had a waiter run out to the street after me, midtown Manhattan, a sushi/tappas place, sternly inquiring as to why I didn't tip them. I simply forgot, it was very late. I didn't need that.

What Europeans think that Scandinavia is not in Europe?

I’m from the USA and had the experience in Switzerland where the server refunded money due to my overtipping.

That’s funny. When there recently, I had a woman put the cc machine back in my face with a pouty look after I had plugged in 10%.

She was non-Swiss herself though and I read it as trying to take advantage of a tourist

> She was non-Swiss herself though and I read it as trying to take advantage of a tourist

Why would being non-Swiss make someone more likely to take advantage of a tourist?

Not the OP, but I guess they meant non-Swiss as someone who might be used to a different set of tipping norms?

Yes thanks. Call your dogs off Philip

If so then why "I read it as trying to take advantage of a tourist"?

I lived in Swizterland, but never experienced any refund. Some places would reject tips outright when asked or point out that your tip is excessive, but a refund?

Refund might be the wrong term she handed back what she felt she wasn’t entitled to.

Your 10% rule is absolutely not representative of Scandinavian tipping culture.

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