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Comment by ciconia | Hacker News Reader

FWIW France has it right: there's no tipping, service is always included.

I am french, living in the US: yes, service is always included in France, but service is usually not that good. At least, definitely not as good as in the US.

Many countries have far better service without tipping, China and Japan come to mind.

The market works better in China: Competition is fierce and nowadays with online reviews most restaurants are so scared of a bad review that they go the extra mile and staff go all out as soon as you raise a slight concern.

Japan is amazing in some places, that you can order with a tablet apps then you pick up your food yourself when it arrived. Very minimum interaction and employees needed.

If I go to a restaurant and it’s all handled through a tablet I leave. I can get that treatment at the airport.

It's good for some neurodivergent people.

Overly-solicitous hospitality staff can make me tense.

At the far end of the scale are bathroom attendants who want to help me wash/dry/moisture my hands after using the facilities.

Or the sales staff in the fancier retail stores that after I tell them I'm just looking around, will proceed to stand behind me and stare at me.

Maybe they judge me too poor for their products and it's an attempt to get me to leave...

>At the far end of the scale are bathroom attendants who want to help me wash/dry/moisture my hands after using the facilities.

I've never ran into these and I hope I never will.

You can order drinks at a bar and on an airplane, what's your point? Do you go out to eat specifically to talk to cashiers? If i want fine dining, being served is part of the experience. But if I want a good bowl of ramen, I can't see how using a tablet is some sort of deal breaking issue. What vital experience do you get giving a regular food order to a cashier?

Yes, and South Korea too.

Efficient service, good food, good prices (for a foreigner), no tipping expected or even possible.

This is a problem for the employer and for the selection and remuneration of staff (at all levels of the chain and not just those in contact with the customer)

I spend about equal time in the USA and split between France, Germany, and The Netherlands.

Personally, I find the service in USA restaurants to be obnoxious, overly fake, and disruptive. I generally only go out to eat in Europe because I prefer a peaceful meal rather than a rushed one with a side of fake friendship.

It will always feel rude to me how in the USA the waiters leave the check at tge table a couple of minutes after they bring your food. What if I want something else later?

It feels as if he/she "finished" with your table and you are SOL if you want anything else.

I've never had that happen and ive lived in the US my whole life. Must be a regional thing. I've never gotten a check before asking for it.

Interesting, Ive had it happen in Chicago, California and Indiana. At Dennis, iHOP and some other more regional restaurants.

The places you’ve mentioned are cheaper diners (which I also enjoy) where most people don’t explore the menu and portions are plentiful. Hardly somewhere you’re getting dessert or coffee _after_ a meal.

Huh. I wish this was the norm in my area, so I didn't have to wait around for the check once I finish eating.

I think it is subjective. I prefer being left alone and having to talk to the staff only when I need something.

Being interrupted every 2 minutes with a "Is everything ok?" is annoying.

I live in the US but have traveled to France for my entire life and speak French reasonably well. My take on this is: service is just fine in France. The difference is that nobody is "servile" in France. Also there are protocol differences (e.g. server never brings the bill until asked) that might be interpreted as lower levels of service.

We take food very seriously :)

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