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Comment by fallingbananna | Hacker News Reader

>Could EU just ask DHL/Hermes/whatever to charge an additional €1 "for recycling"? Yes, but...

Within EU we already pay ~€3 for packages from China. And in Austria we will soon pay additional ~€2 for every delivered package. And 20% VAT.

Edit:

I am pretty sure at least some part of these already contribute towards recycling.

The goal here is likely not just to get more funding for recycling, but rather to use materials that can be recycled in the first place. Which you cannot achieve simply by charging businesses or consumers more.

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In Ireland, the National Postal Service (An Post) charges €6.95 processing on top of the €3 Customs Charge. An additional €2 handling fee per product is expected in November 2026. All subject to 23% Vat.

So we go from €3 to about €15 a package ordering from the UK. The country we have a visa-less Common Travel Area exclusive from Schengen, without a land or sea border.

You could feasibly pay less accompanying such a package in an Uber from Northern Ireland to Ireland (e.g. UK->EU).

Joined up thinking at its finest to benefit the Benelux at the expense of the periphery.

DHL charges 1 eur for recycling, which it pockets since the envelope or box with thr product went to the consumer... who throws it away to the segregated garbage bin - for which every consumer also pays.

> for which every consumer also pays.

Idk, at least in Germany paper and (plastic) recycling is free. I only have to pay for organic trash and trash to be burned.

That's correct. In Germany we pay "indirectly" via the end price. Meaning whoever has to pay the afforementioned EPR fee is free to add their cost to the price of the product.

But to be fair, at least paper disposal is truly free because paper recycling generally turns a profit for the municipalities.

In Spain we pay the "tasa de gestión de residuos" (residue management tax) to our city, for all recycling in general. doesn't matter if it's paper, plastics/packagings, organics (many cities now collect those separat from non-organic) and other residues. It also includes the "punto limpio", a place to take larger electronics, batteries, car fluids and other stuff you can't just throw to the bin. Old medicine is collected at pharmacies though, it's a separate thing to avoid animals or people looking from the trash from getting medication, that could be dangerous.

How is recycling free but you've got to pay for organics? Don't you just pay a tax (or pay it indirectly through income tax or VAT)? And you've got the whole returning the plastic bottles on the supermarket thing too, right?

It's mad not to keep the recycling costs at the point of recycling collection, though. Why would the EU need to be involved, when it's either a private company or local government procuring the recycling service?

The taxes levied also go into the general government fund. Which means they mostly go to paying pensions and social security (unemployment, medical insurance, long-term medical leave, ...)

(... and that is really why this is so staunchly defended)

The real farce is that you don't get paid for recycling. Really demonstrates that it's a complete charade.

If there was any value in recycling you'd pay some fee for the packaging, and you'd get it right back when you recycle it.

Outside of aluminum cans and bottle it certainly looks like recycling ends up being 'send it to the landfill, but with some extra steps and fees.'

> Within EU we already pay ~€3 for packages from China

Yes, the point is, pay +€1 for packages from EU to EU to finance all this PPWR circus.

It is already €20+ to send something from e.g. Czechia to France.

It doesn't matter, PPWR needs to get money from somebody to finance itself. Consumers end up paying it regardless of where PPWR's cut is taken.

This has nothing to do with EPR. The €3 for packages from China is a fixed processing fee on top of potential tariffs.

They got rid of the de minimis €150 limit for tariffs and added fees on top.

There was also €25 VAT de minimis limit but that’s also no longer the case since some time.

Important nuance here is that the €3 for packages from China is a temporary solution and will eventually (2028?) be replaced by a more permanent system which _might_ work out more favourable for electronics.

Having said that, the customs duty will go to the EU budget so there's now a direct incentive for the EU to maintain or perhaps even increase this.

Not just China. Also packages from Japan and Thailand get this charge.

It should be much higher.

The amount of shit that gets shipped from China to Europe (world) is fucking ludicrous, and people should be taxed heavily for the stupid shit they often don't need.

Right, so tell me where in Europe can I buy replacement parts for random electronics when I need them? Often very specific ICs, last time it was a cassette deck pinch roller, etc.

Preferably somewhere where it’s cheaper than the value of the thing being repaired.

Yes, and that's a whole different problem, which in itself does not equal stupid shit.

The reason the price for parcels from China is going up in Europe is not shipping chips or component, it's from shipping stupid fucking shit people do not need, from e.g Temu and copied goods such as clothing, shoes and what not.

The toll offices in the airports are being drowned in cheap crap. Shut it down by making people pay more for the shit they buy. That will of course hurt everyone else, but that is how it works.

Clothing, famously less important on Maslow's hierarchy of needs than semiconductors.

Well, clothing that doesn't last or made of plastic is indeed less important.

Might it just be that people are buying from Temu because stuff at the mall is 10x as expensive and doesn’t even last all that longer nowadays? People can’t afford to pay 40€ for a T shirt.

Me too - I get the feeling it’s the same garbage at a different price point.

As if everyone wear fast fashion from their local retail store for 20 years. Truth is many people are buying new clothes because they want new clothes and not because they break (just like many in HN buys new electronics even if their computer from 20 years still boots)

The fact that these clothes tend to be in the category of "doesn't last or made of plastic" (plus low human labour costs) is what makes them cheap enough to be possible for people to order/buy them in as large quantities.

EU banned destruction of unsold clothing. Estimated 4-9% of textile products in europe are destroyed before sold.

Lack of clothing is not really that big of problem if we look from needs perspective.

That’s just a tangentially related fact and not very relevant to this discussion from my perspective

Maslow's Hierarchy has been revised: https://www.adipsys.com/en/wi-fi-customer-experience/maslow-...

What's "sex" doing in basic needs ? That's a recent addition ?

Don't think so, maybe your textbook was censored.

Maybe switch to less frequent random inspections instead of looking at every parcel? That would reduce the costs immediately at the "price" of letting in some illegal drugs and weapons. Sign me up.

Reichelt and Conrad in Germany. Digikey has logistics in Netherlands

I’ve found that those sites tend to charge insane amounts for shipping (20€+ to Portugal at least) which considering the price of the parts in question generally makes it not worth it unfortunately. Maybe it’s better now, I haven’t tried in a few years.

Isn't Conrad out of business?

Online is still in business. I know some physical stores closed during Covid, not sure if all closed

Unfortunately, if you want to fix electronics more often than not China is the only place you can buy spare parts. I don't think buying spare parts to devices counts as "stupid shit".

If you were to interpret the comment you’re responding to charitably, you’d understand that electronics components are a minuscule minority of all of Chinese exports.

Sure! I understand that everyone buying stuff on Temu and Shein is horrific. At the same time, me paying $$$ for ordering electrical components from China is rough for me. And also, I find it mind-blowing and ridiculous that Ali offered free shipping for small orders for so long whereas if I'd buy local I need to pay up for shipping, and if I'd start a small business in the Netherlands, shipping to the rest of the EU for small parcels is prohibitively expensive, not even taking into account PPWR

The problem with overarching regulations is that they kill the good along the bad, which is the original topic of the article being discussed...

I'm tired of being told I don't matter because I'm in a minority. You'd never dare imply a tax making gypsy folk singing unviable is fine because it's a "miniscule minority" of all music played, so why do it for electronics repair?

But a ban on making loud noises after midnight would also impact a gypsy who likes to folk sing after midnight and it would be pretty ludicrous to cite that as a reason not to do it.

The right thing to do is not to sweep him under a rug because "there's only a few such gypsies", but to look at what he's doing and say "yes, this is what we want to ban". Being a in minority is not a shield from consequences, but it shouldn't be a reason for dismissal either.

In the case of the 3-EUR-tariff, nobody has come out and said "we want to make small electronics production/repair untenable", so I'm optimistically assuming its effects are not intentional.

But the stupid part of stupid shit doesn't apply to the electronics, while Gypsy singing is still loud

Yup and those parts often cost literal cents making the €3,60 per item a ridiculously high fee. All while we're protecting the environment by repairing things.

the fee goes per product category, not per item...

I know but in practice those categories are very narrow. If I order two different things I'll still pay the fee twice in practice.

I did two orders from Aliexpress recently. On the first one they did count the fee per item, on the second they already had the categories figured out & counted the fee only per category.

Since then I am now getting "duty saving" adverts for them where they help you to get items on sale & in the same category. So it took them like two months not to only adapt, but to use the fee as apart of their marketing. ;-)

Oh ok I kinda stopped ordering from them since it was introduced. I've been ordering lots of stuff before it came in so I could have some stock of things I use a lot, like WS2812B LEDs, micro screws etc.

I was really infuriated when I heard that it was mainly the big chains like Lidl, Aldi, Ahold that have been lobbying for this crap. They are always trying to kill the little guy.

I don’t think the electronics spare parts market makes up a sizable chunk of Chinese exports to the West but I could be wrong

Not everything is unnecessary and a lot of it will be bought anyway but now through EU resellers that charge a lot more for the same shit.

Pretty much everything is made in China. Maybe you are just mad at the companies cutting out the European middle men making a large cut?

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