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Comment by hmexx | Hacker News Reader

Maybe they're coming around to a more effective western technique:

"we're good guys" facade combined with stealth oppression :-P

I kid.. I kid...

But really you don't kid. You're only afraid of being labeled a crackpot in a tinfoil hat. This is what western media has done, subtle propaganda has made certain words like conspiracy sound crazy. When our history books teach us that conspiracies have been part of humanity for as long back as we can find documents for it. Most likely before.

I kid, I kid...

The problem is in my opinion, that the "conspiracy" websphere is a quite a closed circle. They either go full blown "bow to our UFO overlords", or nothing. I wish there were a few in-between media outlets that had a decent level of sanity and look & feel more linkable for "non believers".

I have a rule of thumb these days. Anything crazy that I hear the military, NSA or FBI are doing - I take it as being true, rather than a "conspiracy theory".

I think I have a much higher chance of being right than not, in most cases. So I'd rather think like that by default, especially with many former "crazy conspiracy theories" being confirmed as true by more recent leaks and whistleblowers.

I think most people still think the opposite, though, so even if something big gets uncovered, they won't really believe it to be true "in their hearts".

So you really believe that the government is setting up concentration camps around the country, is going to use the military domestically to round up guns and all dissenters, and Obama is going to seize dictatorial control of the USA then hand sovereignty over to the New World Order?

Maybe we just hear different conspiracies but I'm pretty positive that the conspiracy nonsense regarding the government shouldn't be taken as "true by default".

Don't forget the Area 52 where they combine alien and human DNA.

Right, because Area 51 is just a decoy.

The fact that you are "pretty positive" about that only means that you are the kind of person who is too lazy to investigate the facts. You probably still believe that JFK was killed by a crazed lone gunman, that Pearl Harbor was a complete surprise to FDR, and that 9/11 was NOT an inside job. In other words, you are the kind of complacent rube that makes it all possible, thanks a lot.

Well, then you can read the actual serious intellectuals and researchers like Chomsky, for example. Read "Manufacturing Consent", no ufo stuff there just the real deal. There is extensive literature and documentation of what is really going on, but its not going to be part of the narrative, you have to look for it. Assange's new book is another example. There are tons of authors, just follow the thread. Note: HN, any other reading material you would recommend to me or to stfu?

Chomsky is decidedly not a conspiracy theorist. One of the main points in "Manufacturing Consent" is that you can have a healthy production of propoganda without any conspiratorial relationship between the media and government.

At the same time, Chomsky ain't dumb. Of course powerful people look out for their own interests; that leads to an overlap in goals with other powerful people, and a defensive/paranoid stance towards those you wield power over. Just like a lot of analog clocks hanging on a wall will synchronize, so will they.

Does it have to be explicitly expressed and planned to be a conspiracy? Nah. And if people get sorted and filtered based on how well they internalized rationalizations and outright lies, that's your "conspirational relationship" right there. Though "the government" is hardly the driving force here -- have you even read Chomsky?

But yes, Chomsky isn't a pussy and Chomsky pays attention. But what he points out are conspiracies in effect, and they are every bit as sinister as some James Bond BS you could come up with; it's just that "none of this is controversial", no paranoia required.

> Does it have to be explicitly expressed and planned to be a conspiracy?

That's pretty much the definition of "conspiracy."

> And if people get sorted and filtered based on how well they internalized rationalizations and outright lies, that's your "conspirational relationship" right there.

No, that's not a conspiracy. It might be something else, but it's not a conspiracy.

> Though "the government" is hardly the driving force here -- have you even read Chomsky?

I read "Manufacturing Consent."

"No, that's not a conspiracy. It might be something else, but it's not a conspiracy."

It has the same effect as one. And "conspiracy theory" is usually used to wave away bringing the actual dynamics up. If the "conspirators" aren't even aware of it that just makes it worse, so how is "it's something different" any solace? Yeah, it's the same thing, but worse. It's like a conspiracy, but it requires intervention because it's not one, and insight will not end it.

"I read "Manufacturing Consent."

Which is about big business routing around democracy as a potential problem via propaganda.

Here's a quote from the man I transcribed from him speaking:

What has been created by this half century of massive corporate propaganda is what's called "anti-politics". So that anything that goes wrong, you blame the government. Well okay, there's plenty to blame the government about, but the government is the one institution that people can change... the one institution that you can affect without institutional change. That's exactly why all the anger and fear has been directed at the government. The government has a defect - it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect - they're pure tyrannies. So therefore you want to keep corporations invisible, and focus all anger on the government. So if you don't like something, you know, your wages are going down, you blame the government. Not blame the guys in the Fortune 500, because you don't read the Fortune 500. You just read what they tell you in the newspapers... so you don't read about the dazzling profits and the stupendous dizz, and the wages going down and so on, all you know is that the bad government is doing something, so let's get mad at the government.

Not reading material as such, but i feel the need to shout out democracynow.org for some independent, intelligent news (Chomsky is often a guest). PS they are seeking donations!

“Trust no one! The minute God crapped out the third caveman, a conspiracy was hatched against one of them! ”

― Col. Hunter Gathers, OSI (venture brothers)

But to be honest I imagine that the vast majority of so-called conspiracy is just like seeing a face on the moon - we're highly complex social analysers and modern civilisation is at least an order (but more like several orders) of magnitude bigger/more complex than the machinery that has stood us in good stead for however many generations. Hence - we see a ghost in the machine pulling the strings when really "The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business" as is so eloquently put in Network.

I guess the biggest problem is the consistent track record of "the government" lying to the people while "word on the street" had it right. The long history from "smoking is harmless" to "there are WMDs in Iraq" has created the impression, that government is not working for the people but against the people.

That might be a wrong impression for most of the services government performs, but in other high profile areas (e.g. "security theater") these situations are set to repeat.

A lot of conspiracy stuff is definitely coming from the mentally disturbed part of society.

But on the other hand, we have to be careful. It is absolutely the case that certain groups conspire for various activities: Lenin & the Bolsheviks, Paul Revere and the US revolutionaries, the Praetorian Guards in ancient Rome, just to name a few. Pertaining more to the usual conspiracy fodder, reviewing the Church Committee reports on the CIA (c.f. "United States President's Commission on CIA activities within the United States" in Wikipedia) does not give great comfort to people who would like to ignore conspiracies. They happen, but they aren't aliens from the Zonker Dimension in snake form.

I think you will find this interesting:

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/14zlhf/what_are_s...

You're not kidding at all. It amuses me how often I hear people rant about other countries' (esp. China) propaganda... and then cite Fox News.

Actually you have nailed it. And I kid not.

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