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Comment by vlovich123 | Hacker News Reader

Setting aside the morality of these vs other force options, these run at $1650/pair if I’m reading it correctly - $66k for 40. Anyone else find it like an insane amount of money for a device that’s so simple?

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Sounds pretty cheap to me for such a niche product. How many electric glove suppliers (and buyers) do you think there are?

Feel free to recreate and calibrate and guarantee safe shock levels to offer it cheaper if that fits your morals

Why is there a requirement to guarantee it safe? I don't believe that requirement exists for tasers, for example, which are just considered less lethal. Same for rubber bullets.

If you're selling it as a nonlethal weapon, you should somehow make certain it's not going to kill except by freak accident, and cannot be used to kill deliberately.

Also, consider the safely of the police officer.

I have bad news about what is considered non lethal. They sell non lethal tank rounds, for instance.

These systems are called less than lethal.

Just "less lethal" is the current industry term, since it's acknowledged that these weapons are still capable of killing.

Safe shock levels is a naive myth. What if the person had a pacemaker? What if they’re wet? What if one person is grabbed by the bicep and forearm, and another is grabbed by the chest and face? It’s completely impossible to assign one value, or even range, that’s both safe and effective for all commonplace variations.

That is exactly the point you are responding to. There is no such thing as "safe shock levels".

This is just Taser(tm) all over again.

Kid's toys beg to differ. The question is whether it's effective at safe electricity levels. I was just pointing out that safety is an aspect you'll need to certify before anyone's gonna buy it off of you. And whether you fake your certification or not, of course there's no guarantee that it can't still inflict damage to a person under any circumstance

All covered in the article. Touching face, chest, groin, etc is forbidden. And the shock is local to the touched area (unlike tasers).

> Touching face, chest, groin, etc is forbidden.

Sure, just like beating a suspect is.

Yep and the point is moot in that sense. There are those who will use the gloves as prescribed, same they wouldn't stoop to beating up a person of interest, etc. And there are those who will go directly for the sensitive areas out of spite, whether it be with glove, baton, gun butt or fist.

This whole subthread (where I never meant safe as "unable to cause any sort of harm to any organism under any circumstance") feels moot. In general though, there's a reason virtually all countries heavily restrict access to weapons. A law enforcement officer who doesn't carry weapons (lethal or otherwise) will have a harder time killing someone by accident, so the person above you brings up a valid concern. The question whether the concern should lead to the gloves being banned is about proportionality, and I'm not sure we can get to a useful conclusion of that pros-and-cons discussion in an HN comment under the size limit

And i’m sure they’re follow those rules to the letter. Like how they always fire rubber bullet at the ground the way they are designed to be used and never directly at journalists

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/lapd-laure...

> Touching face, chest, groin, etc is forbidden.

It’s really hard to believe that an officer who’s wrestling someone hand-to-hand, possibly on the ground or against a wall, is going to restrain themselves from grabbing face or chest in the heat of the moment.

I didn't mean it as an absolutism; safety is never an absolutism. Driving a car is considered safe, too

Main question is how many pairs you will ever sell.

Explaining it in terms of software. How much would you charge per copy for software that takes team of 10 to run as business if you sell only say 10 copies, or 100, or even 1000? Quite a lot per copy.

Do these really need to be sold as pairs? I suspect one GLOVE would be adequate?

Just add “tactical” to any product you make and you can charge 40% extra.

A “tactical wedding” is an absolute goldmine.

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