I'm convinced that I would have been happy without children. I would have lived a wonderful life, maybe with a spouse, maybe alone, traveling the world, working on my interests, and generally doing whatever I wanted to do. You don't miss what you never had.
But now that I have two kids, that life seems so hollow. Kids make you feel things that you've never felt before. It's like suddenly discovering a new rainbow of colors, or like listening to a piece of music that makes you simultaneously giddy with joy and wistfully sad and you can't explain why.
You can't compare the joy of having kids with any other pleasure you've experienced. It's like trying to compare having sex with having a great meal. It's not even the same scale.
Of course, everyone's different. Some people absolutely regret having kids (and that's sad for everyone). But if you have even a slight feeling like maybe you want to have kids, I would absolutely do it. My only regret is that I waited so long.
While it's less common now, I don't think anyone who grew up in a bigger family under one roof could agree with that. Nothing divine is gatekeeping this experience. It's the socioeconomic climate we've created doing that.
It makes perfect sense that you value your family so deeply, but you might want to reconsider where you anchor your pride. It's a lot of responsibility. Unexpected things can happen.
I'm extremely grateful to have examined all stages of life on a daily basis before even going to college, but I think having kids is a heavy choice. It's perhaps the heaviest choice of all. Since there's no mystery in it for me, I'm still enjoying being unchained.
I do. I grew up with 5 siblings, and having brothers and sisters is very, very different from having your own children. My relation with and my emotions towards my children is very different from my relation with and my emotions towards my siblings, both now and when I was still living with them in the same house.
Since comments are sorted by points, it's more of an indication how touchy or dogmatic a subject is. I expect to lose points when I'm not the only reply. I've seen discussions where hours later a brigade of green accounts skyrocket to the top out of nowhere simply because they reinforce a more convenient idea. All of the original more interesting comments get downvoted.
With this one though, I don't know since all your replies are basically the same and you've all been here a while.
I actually expected my comment to get more downvotes since I was describing a tougher upbringing in a multi-generational household, but it got buried in noise. HN generally doesn't know how to handle more down-to-earth topics and defaults to thinking in stereotypes.
If there is a difference between the replies, the top one was made after yours and elaborates on being "tough" while still disagreeing, so maybe that's more convincing to some people?
I promise you that you do not know what having children is like and that the mystery remains alive, should you ever choose to take that journey. One is reminded of Plato’s cave.
You might have an idea that there is no mystery. You've only seen a glimpse yet, even if you were changing your siblings' diapers. There is much more of that mystery iceberg.
Is probably true for all life changing event. Extreme poverty, wealth, loss of a parent, etc. There's nothing special in that regard about having children.
> if you have even a slight feeling like maybe you want to have kids, I would absolutely do it
Nah, that's just being egocentric. Have children if you're pretty sure you can raise them in the best conditions possible for them to end up being happy, if not, better keep on hesitating.
"Most people would die sooner than think—in fact, they do so" — Bertrand Russell
The contrast you provided between those who are happy with family and those two seem miserable is in line with what I am saying: it's both 'be smart about what you persue' and 'be smart about how you persue it.' So likely the first group was 'smarter' about who they chose as a spouse and how they set up the life with them than the second group.
So maybe we can score the miserable group as a -1, the happy group as a +1 and your avoidance strategy as in-between: 0.
So you can look at your strategy as good because it avoids the extreme misery but it also denies a shot at extreme happiness. And then if one were to go that potentially high risk/high reward path, their actual outcome (are they happy or miserable) is a function of how smartly they persue that endeavor.
Another factor is that when you have children and regret it you can suffer a lot more than just "-1" of misery - I'd say the scale is more like -10 to +1 (centered around 0). Furthermore if you end up regretting it you will also inflict some part of that misery onto your children.
Kids can be hard, especially if you're not a natural, and especially when they're young, but-- it's impossible to describe the fulsome love I have for my kids. I'm not a sentimental person, and probably wouldn't have had them without my wife (which is a funny thing to say). Even when they're a pain and a disappointment, even with the ever present guilt, my kids give me some baseline purpose for free. And the wins are great--"all joy and no fun" as I heard once. The conversations as they become real people. It's impossible to describe and totally worth it.
I don't know how much research there is on this but anecdotally there are many emotionally absent and neglectful parents out there. They might be able to cope with the way their life is but that doesn't mean that they're good parents (or that they wouldn't do things differently if they got to start over again).
There's also a chance that your child is born with disabilities that demand intensive life-long support. I know that I couldn't cope with that, so even if my general outlook on having children changed some day I could never get past this, for my own good and out of responsibility for my hypothetical child.
I only offer my own experience, because I had the same fears as you. One datapoint, but parenting changed me in so many good ways, and the hardships fade from memory.
Plus, kids who grow up with parents who are unhappy and would prefer to be childless are probably a lot more likely to grow up into unhappy adults.
Happiness should be the end goal. Contentment is part of it. Compromise. Quality over quantity and the quality doesn't have to always be great, just no regrets according to modern death bed speeches. Being happy can mean chasing one thing and not the other, which would lead to some unspoken regret, loud enough in our head.
Your second paragraph seems to be mostly quibbling of my use of the term that already was being used throughout this thread (and in the article itself). I don't understand why you chose my comment in particular to litigate the definition when it's not something I've introduced to the discussion.