Facebook Users Must Be Allowed To Use Pseudonyms, Says German Privacy Regulator
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I do have a legal name - my birth name. It's but one of many. Why is my legal name important? It isn't. I don't even consider it my primary name. The concept of one single "real" name is severely retarded and flies in the face of reality. We need to get rid of this concept, along with the illusion of a single identity. I simply am not the same person when I am with my parents, when I'm with my meatspace friends, or if I'm hanging out on IRC with people I know pretty well, but have never seen or met. I'm someone different here on HN than I am on 4chan, or any other message board. That's perfectly human, and no company or law will ever change that.
No, sorry. No.
Your legal name is important. If you ever get incarcerated, your legal name will be on the docket. If you have a license or passport, your legal name will be on it. Your taxes have your legal name, as well as any other government certificates you may ever have.
For any recreational/social purpose, what's the point of requiring legal name? How many "John Smith"s are there in the world?
But yeah, assigning GUIDs to everyone born in the world, like as "a93sz0sz" would allow uniqueness for thousands of years.
I virtually never write my entire name in forms. I bet I could use a pseudonym or fake name and nobody would care as long as the identity number is there. The only exception is passports where my legal name is important.
If you don't think that Facebook should require your official name, I get that. But trying to deny that people generally have one seems odd.
Guess what, my "street name" is used in "street" scenarios, my "immediate and extended family name" is used by my immediate and extended family (not my legal name btw, nor has it ever been).
What makes the legal name special in any regard? They are all used in their niche.
Skkkkrrrrriiiiittttcccchhh
No, most of us are pretty happy with it because it works. OK, so you feel restricted by it, but you don't get to make the call on what people 'need' to do. These philosophical excursions are entertaining, but the fact is that your legal name is important because it enables the relationship between you and the complex society you inhabit. Money's an abstraction, but one which justifies itself daily by allowing people to buy and sell conveniently. Your legal name serves a similar function.
Reply here with a link to a scan of your State-issued Driver's License and national passport proving that your legal name is, in fact, "anigbrowl" in the next 24 hours or your account will be deleted and you personally (i.e., your legal identity) will be perma-banned from this service.
(Not really, I don't admin HN at all. But you won't do it either.)
Similarly, I was recently informed that it was my Twitter birthday. It was not the same as my legal birthday. This does not, however, deprive my legal birthday its significance.
anigbrowl then came in with his "Skkkkrrrrriiiiittttcccchhh No, most of us are pretty happy with it because it works" remarks, which I felt was rather flippant. My response was meant to show anigbrowl the logical conclusion of his position. It's not an unrealistic possibility either, I believe it's been at times the official policy of Facebook, Google Plus, Blizzard, and S. Korea.
My point is that, no, a single identity doesn't work and really it never did. We all use many different context-dependent identities as we interact in life.
The logical conclusion of anigbrowl's position is not "You will be permabanned from this service if you can't produce a driver license reading 'anigbrowl'." This is an argument against a much more ridiculous stance than the one he took.
My response is as germane to this thread as your comment was.
The record scratch sound effect is a bad enough affectation when used in movies and television. Your point is more than strong enough to stand alone without it.
While I agree with this statement, it also occurs to me that society may be becoming sufficiently complex to warrant a level of flexibility in naming that we don't have. A legal name may be important for interfacing with some things, but it does not follow that all things must interface with your legal name. Facebook and Google seem to think it should, but mostly because they're advertising companies, not because it's a requirement of the services they provide, or a requirement for all the kinds of human relationships they're offering to mediate.
This mechanical imposition of a single identity where it has not previously been mandatory is what gets people calling it "severely retarded", etc.
And real names have some advantages (e.g. much harder time for trolls); sure, they have disadvantages as well...
...but I don't like the idea of a country saying about features a certain product needs to have (or even - thinking that they can say, because AFAIK in the current state Germany can make usage of FB illegal for their citizens, as it is no located in Germany).
I'm not in favor of Germany on this one but sometimes the law/government should interfere to ensure people freedom. Just because it's a private company doesn't mean they can do whatever they want with our data even if we were the ones providing the data.
Some of my personal experience says that (usually, not always) people under names don't troll that much.
Of course, the situation is different for small communities, or skill-driven communities, but (usually) not for open ones. (E.g. on HN anonymity works well.)
I don't say that I agree with FB's rules (personally I prefer "real names encouraged, but not required" policy on such "for everyone" sites). I'm just saying that there are pros and cons, both for FB and for its users.
That's what the German government is saying. They're not outlawing the use of real names.
Alternatively, "you want to do business in our country, you must follow our rules".
Not that I agree.
However, for me there is a strong difference whether a monopoly chances rules (or as time goes by, the world changes - see move/music distributors) or people accepted it before it was a monopoly.
E.g. imagine that Germany say that HN needs to have pictures or, at very least, thumbnails. ;)
This is a weak slippery slope argument. Germany is not making arbitrary requests on web sites. Rather it is protecting the right of its citizens to anonymity, according to pre-existing laws.
EDIT: People assuming that I'm against all kinds of such regulations: cut that out, I never claimed that.
That might be a moral problem for libertarians. But there are lots of (not only German) laws along these lines.
Not participating in a transaction is a personal issue, which doesn't need justification. Not letting others participate in it should need to be very well justified, at least in a State that is supposed to be democratic and just.
Personally, and in this particular case, I find the justification lacking.
The law is there to protect individual citizens against the ruthless exploitation by major corporations like Facebook.
Especially when those corporations hold the key to either social isolation or abandoning your civil rights. The laws are there to prevent companies from abusing their power from effectively undermining individual people's rights and freedoms.
Anonymous idiots spouting off, oh my...
Company proceeds to only hire men, despite women with similar or better qualifications applying. Company then sued for obvious gender discrimination, illegal in the US.
Facebook is used as the exclusive sign-on system for various services besides Facebook itself. For instance, Spotify uses it, and last I checked it is not possible to use Spotify at all without using Facebook.
If Facebook continues to grow, the consequences of not using Facebook could be more severe than at present. It's a classic example of network effects.
Once something becomes a necessity, such as telephone or internet, I think you have a strong case to say that even though using it is technically voluntary, the price of not using it is so high that most people have no choice.
Is Facebook at that level of necessity today? Not for me, but maybe it is for some people.
For example, Spotify should not exclusively rely on Facebook, as a non-anonymous access provider.
How about if Facebook required users to submit a form detailing all sources and amounts of income for the previous year? Strictly confidential, of course.
Germany would certainly have a double standard barring those practices, but they should.
Facebook have an office in Germany.
Here's some job postings: https://www.facebook.com/careers/locations/hamburg and their Facebook page for the office https://www.facebook.com/FacebookHamburg
I for one won't use Facebook or any other social media as long as I can't use a fake name. At times it feels a shame, really.
I hope that we make more headway, in the legal and popular understanding, that website TOSs currently seem to amount to nothing more binding than "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" signs.
I know a guy who has been using an alias on facebook for the past 8 years or so. It is funny to watch when his alias creeps in to real life. Normal scenario, Bob meets Alice, a friend of a friend, at a party. They friend each other on facebook, Bob uses the alias Claude. Sometime passes and they run into each other elsewhere. Since Alice met many people that day and now mostly only remembers Bob as Claude from facebook. Some confusion occurs when Bob's friends call him Bob while Alice is convinced his name is Claude.
Hashtag sounds like it could be a respected German surname. (Does it translate?)
If you want to/have to hide your real name, a pseudonym might help (and your suggestion is helpful). But not everyone using a pseudonym tries desperately to hide his real name.
Nothing against your post, I just want to make a case for pseudonyms while avoiding to reduce this to 'some people are in real danger of violence' cases etc.
Let people choose their names. Regardless of their motivation.
* Pseudonym: An identifier of a subject other than one of the subject's real names.
* Real name: The opposite of a pseudonym. For example, [...]
* Pseudonymous: A property of a data subject in which the subject is identified by a pseudonym.
* Pseudonymity: The state of being pseudonymous.
Pseudonymity is strengthened when less personal data can be linked to the pseudonym; when the same pseudonym is used less often and across fewer contexts; and when independently chosen pseudonyms are more frequently used for new actions (making them, from an observer's or attacker's perspective, unlinkable).
So according to these definitions, you're right that a pseudonym by itself may not require one to conceal their "real" identity. However, pseudonymity clearly does.
I think pseudonymity is the more fundamental as a general security property. So your example of a person using a pseudonym without significant desire for pseudonymity is more of a corner case, at least in serious discussions.
If we need a term for a pseudonym without strong pseudonymity, I propose we use the term from IRC and call it a "nick".
I can think of a number of communities which have chosen to require the use of real names, and I wonder what kind of corporate structure they need to have in order to make that policy legally defensible against laws like these.
Not sure. But if they are offering their service to Germans, and, perhaps more important, make money from German companies via sale of advertising, there's probably a lever for German law to act on.
Here's some job postings: https://www.facebook.com/careers/locations/hamburg and their Facebook page for the office https://www.facebook.com/FacebookHamburg
Regardless Facebook Ireland Ltd., would fall under Irish, not German law.
This strategy also applies for any other social-web services.
They just did.
Here's some job postings: https://www.facebook.com/careers/locations/hamburg and their Facebook page for the office https://www.facebook.com/FacebookHamburg
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/22/technology/facebook-backs-...
Much of what Facebook does is actually against European law, now it's down to enforcement: