Comment by ChrisNorstrom | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ChrisNorstrom | Hacker News Reader

Oh Jesus, UI Design has turned into fashion.

Follow a fad, get sick of it, follow another fad, get sick of it. Over-do skeumorphism, proclaim "I'm heading in the extreme opposite direction", over-do flat design, go into extreme opposite direction. After everything's been "flat"ened we'll move into 3D design where divs and containers have a raised 3D look.

===== The problems with flat design =====

- It can give off a hospital white, cold, emotionless, colorless, boring, bland, sterile look.

- Looks like it was exported from a UI drafting app.

- Looks unfinished.

- You can't always tell which elements are clickable (see new YouTube redesign) because everything is so blocky (see windows metro).

- Has an extremely unhealthy obsession with white-space as a separator.

- Elements that where once grouped together are now just floating around in white-ness.

- Looks like randomly arranged icons and text. (see the new unnecessary, god-awful YouTube re-design)

===== The problems with Skeumorphism =====

- Inefficient, lots of css, lots of images.

- Follows what used to be familiar 10 years ago rather than what's proper today.

- Stuck in the past, old fashion, outdated.

- Doesn't make room for new UI elements.

- Old UI clashing with New UI.

===== The problems with Web 2.0 look =====

- Design and UI are loud and attract more attention than the content they hold.

- Super shiney buttons, unnecessary gradients.

- Distracting colors.

===== WHAT DESIGN SHOULD BE CENTERED AROUND =====

- Predictability, familiarity, usability, ease, retention, signups.

- Gradients are fine as long as they're subtle and not distracting.

- Buttons should have rounded corners to emphasize their clickability.

- Important elements should stand-out / pop-out more. You can use shadows and gradients and color to do this.

- Typography should be easily readable and go with the theme of the site.

- Design elements should not be loud, the elements that contain the content should not stand out more than the content itself.

- Rather than use eye bleeding white on everything, using subtle soft colors is best.

Design has always been about aesthetic preference. While you're absolutely right about the core concepts (typography, color, contrast, etc), I find it amusing that you say that buttons "should" have rounded corners, or that gradients "are fine". Both of those concepts have merit, but are centered around a specific design metaphor (creating virtual objects with real-world qualities; round, "safe" corners for touching) that is by no means required for good UI design.

I'd be happy if we could just all agree and acknowledge that design is fashion and is almost entirely open to personal preference, instead of cyclically praising then destroying our golden calves du jour.

The word "affordance" was mentioned in this thread a lot and for a reason: it is not a thing of fashion, it is essential for good UI design. If you want to engage user in interaction you must make it pretty clear what can be interacted with.

Yes: the problem with all the minimalist approaches to anything (starting with architecture) is that "we, the people" are confronted with something with which we do not know what to do.

Is this a conference hall, a chapel or a dining room? Is this the main room, the entrance or just the aisle to the toilets?

Design, whatever designers may say, is just a means to convey a message: either it succeeds or it is bad design.

It cannot be like modern poetry or modern 'art', where either you know the code or you understand nothing. If this happens, it is not good design, it is a different thing (which may be valuable in itself but not 'design' in this context).

You can write a newspaper with telegrams. It certainly would be cheaper. It would also be unreadable.

Edit: sorry cannot help mentioning it. Minimalists are usually as 'dogmatic' as any baroque artist might be. But at least, when you see baroque art you appreciate the harmony instantly. Not so with minimalism.

Design in broad sense can be related with fashion. But when we talk about UI design we use the term more in engineering sense rather than the artistic one. We can use the term design not only as in Fashion Design, but also as in Circuit Design. When we say UI Design we actually mean both senses. Aesthetic preference can be a factor, but it's never the essence of the act.

The words "in my opinion", "I think", "I cant" and "For me it seems" are sorely lacking in your post.

The beauty of flat design is in many ways counter to the points you made. For example they can look warm, inviting and polished. Of course they look unfinished when done improperly, just like anything else.

Skeumoprhism as well can be done with very little CSS, lots of efficiency and in a modern way, and if done properly it does not have to be "stuck in the past". The part about that it does not leave room for new UI elements comes down to design. If designed properly the website should accomodate alterations in the same way ant other style might. "Old UI clashing with New UI" comes down to design again. No style can help a bad design.

Your points on what design should be centered around seems to be purely your own opinion. I like my buttons with sharp corners. I like strong gradients where appropriate, I like loud design elements as they help grab attention, and I very much like strong colors. There is nothing wrong with using pure white, as it is in many instances the appropriate thing to use for content, style and design. If the whites hurt your eyes, may I suggest you adjust your screen?

90% of what you said boils down to design. If a design starts out terrible, it will most often stay terrible. It does not matter if it is flat design or skeumorphism.

    > UI Design has turned into fashion
    > ===== The problems with Skeumorphism =====
    > - Stuck in the past, old fashion, outdated

> Oh Jesus, UI Design has turned into fashion.

Yes. It's been obvious since at least the Web 2.0 push. Rounded corners where everywhere, gradients, 3-D effects, shadows, etc.

IMO, it was like the industry realized that they had the technology to appear less simple and the one message they wanted to shove down everyone's throat was "OMG we're not simple looking!" Then everyone grew up a bit and realized that's a silly approach to take and now we have UIs that are more oriented at being clear and usable.

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