That being said, having driven electric bikes for a while, here in France they're ridiculously limited in speed and power. 25km/h limit on flat land usually makes sense (except on long straight lines), but when you get climbing even slightly you get down to ~10km/h and have to provide more effort. I guess that's where the 750/1250W 70Nm unrestrained motor comes in handy, and if you live in a place with lots of small hills the choice is either that kind of motor or a car, not the 1000€-total Decathlon/Carrefour electric bike.
To compare: a tour de france runner outputs 400-500W on mountain climbs while keeping up to 20-25km/h. So a 500W motor (plus 100W power output from yourself) should be enough for smaller climbs!
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48761621
DonHopkins 44 days ago | root | parent | prev | next [–]
Enviolo stepless bicycle automatic transmission (never manually shift again, accelerate while continuously shifting under load), with a carbon fiber belt drive (maintainance free, silent, never get grease on your pants or hands again), and Bosch Performance Line mid-motor (strong zippy performance from the geniuses who paid a €90 million fine for Dieselgate), plus GPS tracker with "recovery service" (required for insurance).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQrgKBQrkag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xY2S-9gjHI
https://www.koga.com/en/enviolo-gear-hub
https://www.koga.com/en/bikes/e-bikes/evia-pro-automatic?fra...
It's a dream bike, optimized for comfort and city riding, but Koga is not available in the US, though.
Here's an American bike that has similar features (not as nice as the high-end Koga Evia Pro Automatic though), the Harley Davidson Rush/CTY (step through model is easiest to mount/unmount/ride):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SjN8RN9g7Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoX9S5UhETE
The Enviolo Automatic also come in a heavy duty version paired with high performance motors for bakfiets (cargo bikes), for 3-4 children, big dogs, and groceries:
https://batavus.com/en-nl/products/fier-3-bbfn3
https://www.dw.com/en/bosch-pays-90-million-euro-fine-over-d...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal
Edit:
Fair, they're ideal for city bikes, stop-and-go traffic, and the flat Dutch landscape where they're produced, where the biggest "mountains" you encounter are the bridges over canals. Their city model has 310%, trekking 380%, and the new utility hub has 400% gear range, which you can use on a normal bike, bakfiets, or speed pedelec.
If shifting gears takes to much of your attention, I'm concerned for all of us, and why do you need to pay more attention to riding "effortlessly"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_load
Have you ever ridden a bike with a geared derailleur, and forgotten to shift into low gear at an intersection, or had to suddenly stop before you had a chance to shift into low gear, so it's more difficult getting started again?
Did you notice how it's impossible to shift while you're stopped, and how tricky it is to get it from high back into low while you're starting, especially up hill, and how you can't shift while you're applying force, so you have to push yourself forward instead of pedaling to get it rolling enough to downshift while gently pedaling without accelerating?
A continuous hub fixes those problems, and an automatic transmission shifts you into low when you stop (even if you're not moving), and smoothly and continuously shifts back up while you're accelerating, and the continuous hub allows you to apply power while it's shifting (note I didn't say "changing gears" -- it's continuous, and doesn't have gears. It has planets and fluid instead. It can shift while it's stopped, and accelerate while it's shifting.
You have a lot more important things to worry about when you're accelerating from a stop at a busy intersection than pushing off and shifting without applying acceleration and only pedaling forcefully once you've finished shifting into low gear.
If you're riding a bakfiets (cargo bike) with your kids and a dog in the box, then you definitely have things you need to worry about more than shifting gears, and because of the mass and precious cargo, it's even more important to be able to accelerate from a stop without performing a derailleur dance in the middle of a busy intersection.
It's a trick you have to learn just like using the parking break when starting a manual transmission car facing up hill. Manual transmissions have a much higher cognitive load in both cars and bikes.
This kind of stuff should be intuitive if you've ever ridden a bike with more than one gear, or driven a stick shift car. Sure it gives you "more control", but more control = higher cognative load, and you're probably not a NASCAR race car driver who needs to optimize for control.
It's all explained here:
The Enviolo stepless CVP technology explained:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xY2S-9gjHI
Is enviolo the best internally geared hub for eBikes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vob5Rb4IKsw
He talks about shifting when you're stopped at 2:32.
Yes, it's an annoyance, not an insurmountable obstacle. If one is bothered by it, there's the hub gear, invented more than 100 years ago.
If I'm moving the bike by directly motivating the drivetrain with my foot, all this talk about "more control" feels very silly because I am already directly exposed to whatever is happening on the chain and at the wheels. I don't ride an ebike but because my tires are skinny I can definitely slip out if I start too fast in a low gear. The "fix" for that isn't to pick a different gear or rely on some fancy shifter to try and increase my mechanical advantage, it's to feel the tires slipping at my feet and just... pedal slower.
Ditto for going up hills. Is "the bike got hard to pedal" cognitive load or literal load?
I get the argument for riding a cargo bike but IME cargo bikes are almost always ebikes now because derailleur or not, not many people are going to accelerate quickly with kids and dog. Considering that fancy non-deraileur gearboxes cost nearly as much as cheap ebike conversion kits it seems like an uphill battle.
In my experience with electric motors, yeah I can absolutely believe it. Electric motors aren't cheap!
Just a few quick examples, you can find more with your favourite AI/search engine
16500 bikes confiscated - https://www.ilent.nl/actueel/nieuws/2024/09/12/ilt-legt-besl... https://nos.nl/artikel/2483770-inspectie-waarschuwt-voor-ill... https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1ndpf3z/i_just_pai... https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/04/britain...
There is some sort of complacent attitude that results from, what is normally a road-only moped device, exploiting the privileges of the bike paths. I hope this law changes - I ride a 'normal' electric moped and motorbike also, so I guess I'm a bit biased, but I'd like to see those 45km/h limited e-mopeds classified for road only. It makes no sense to let them use the bicycle paths, in my opinion. They're road-ready, so let them stay on the roads.
I've ridden bikes with Bosch 65Nm motors and with a 80kg rider plus 20kg of cargo they're perfectly fine even up steep hills. As in 18kmph or more with only a moderate amount of effort from the rider. Your bike was really underpowered (50Nm?).
Ebikes are pedal assist, power limited, and limited to only assist up to a certain speed. You can go as fast as you're able, but if you're above (commonly) 25km/h the motor won't help you. They're allowed anywhere you're allowed a non-assisted bicycle.
Electric motorbikes may be limited by the manufacturer in order to achieve a certain license class, but once you get past the low power classes, they're only as limited as their petrol cousins. They're only allowed on roads.
Any middle ground, including things that look like bicycles but don't require the rider to peddle, fall either into the "electric motorbike" category or into the "not roadworthy" category. Riding them without a proper license, insurance, and equipment is illegal.
Somewhat unfortunately, much of the press seems to want to class the non-roadworthy motorised vehicles as a special case of "ebike" rather than the general case of "motorbike".
(And to your first point: yes there are speed limits but it's fairly common for cars and motorbikes to be able to go much faster than the limit. In first gear, even, for motorbikes.)
However bimotal is not that nice - adding a motor to rear triangle alters weight distribution and adds unsprung weight. Also unlike actual nice MTB e-bikes it cannot use chain/casssete for gearing, so gearing is fixed at the factory. If you’re used to nice bikes you will want your ebike to be dialed in just right.
One place where it makes sense is as an alternative to shuttling on forest roads / lifts for downhill-focused riding. F you’re going strictly downhill you can move the motor to the backpack after finishing the climb to reduce unsprung weight. This opens up a large number of trails where forest roads are blocked to car traffic. It also allows dh riding on trail where motor bikes are prohibited.
How nice should one's bike be that you'd rather turn it into a mediocre ebike for the price of buying a good ebike?
I have a ebike that cost ~1500 in 2018 and is probably comparable to what $2k would buy you these days. It's very heavy and while the drivetrain is repairable, there are important pieces of it that I would struggle to repair/replace if they died today.
I have a steel touring bike that's significantly lighter, has standard sized parts that can be repaired, replaced and upgraded (many of which I have already upgraded in the last 15 years) and fits me like a glove. If I didn't own an ebike and you asked me whether I'd rather spend $2k buying something like my ebike or adding a 750W motor to my Surly, I'd upgrade my touring bike.