Hacker News Reader

Comment by wvenable | Hacker News Reader

Did they really have broader values or did they just not have the technical sophistication to optimize their operation to this level? Where "values" just a substitute for more limited information?

I think computers have made the structure of the present inevitable.

View on HN

Imo a bit of both.

The founders [1] of mcdonalds probably did care about say cheaply providing people with enjoyable food. But I would bet soon after they sold [2] the company the actual values changed and definitely a bunch of CEOs down the road the guy put in charge is there for shareholder return.

I personally don't think it's computers. It's unfettered corperatization. Stop giving companies corporate charters to "do all business activities allowed by X state" and instead give them more narrow charters.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_and_Maurice_McDonald

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Kroc

Richard and Maurice McDonald had a small business that almost certainly wouldn't even be around today if they didn't sell to Ray Kroc. The McDonald's we know is a corporation. Corporatization is the process of turning government agencies, public services, or non-business organization into corporations. A more broad interpretation would be applying corporate philosophy to non-corporate things.

McDonald's is already a corporation -- corporatization doesn't apply.

If you don't want corporations to be corporate; I don't what to tell you!

>If you don't want corporations to be corporate; I don't what to tell you!

You don't need to tell me anything. Nor vic2 versa. You don't fight a corporation with reasoned debate, you need more broad tools. Customer demand. Regulations. Competition.

The big mistake here is trying to desensitize the people into thinking they have no power.

> I don't what to tell you!

When this happens to me, I usually solve it by not posting, HTH

It looks like it did and you still posted anyway.

Incorporation was a special privilege the government granted, not a right, so anyone who wanted to form a corporation had to convince the government to pass a law just for them allowing them to do it. Saying "I want to make as much money as possible, to hell with everyone and everything that stands in my way" wasn't going to cut it. Basically every corporation was doing some kind of public service. Maybe they didn't have any values beyond stuffing their pockets with cash, but they had to at least convincingly portray themselves as having broader goals and keep up that act well enough that the government didn't take their charter from them.

Many early corporations were ordinary profit-seeking businesses. Manufacturing, in particular, were increasingly incorporated simply to conduct private enterprise, and states began passing general incorporation statutes for manufacturers quite early in the 19th century.

The special-charter system wasn't some golden age of corporations being held accountable to society. One of the reasons states abandoned special chartering was because it became associated with favouritism, lobbying, monopoly privileges and corruption. Legislators had something valuable to hand out, so connected businesses could seek preferential charters. General incorporation laws were partly an anti-corruption reform.

Thank goodness it's no longer at the whim of the ruler of the moment. Trump can only threaten FCC licenses of broadcast companies, not corporate charters of every industry.

Arguably, there were different values in effect in the past.

There was more emphasis on values like: God-as-god. Country. Family. Courage. Integrity.

The newer values are more like: Money-as-god. Survival. Cats. Dopamine maxxing.

I may get downvoted for mentioning religion in the context of a question about values. But to bring data into it, it's reportedly a fact that "None" [0] as a dominant religious self-identity is indeed a newer/increased phenomenon. It would be hard to argue thats that's not a clear measure of shift in values.

[0] https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/18652908-the-rise-of-...

> There was more emphasis on values like: God-as-god. Country. Family. Courage. Integrity.

By corporations?!? Because that is what we talking about.

Frankly, if we go back far enough we get all the way to slavery and genocide so rose-tinting your glasses about past values doesn't sway me.

What do cats do there? I am confused. It is not like they would be prevalent.

Also, the materialism was top ideology in America. It gave us prosperity gospel long time ago.

There is imagined history and real history. They are not the same.

What is real history? I would like to learn it. Not being snarky. Thank you.

Its called social shaming and its still a thing in other countries. Even for a CEO. This very much is a cultural issue and not an unhalting inevitability of capitalism.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com