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Comment by firesteelrain | Hacker News Reader

US has absurdly large domestic energy resources like gas reserves, coal reserves, uranium, and thermal energy infrastructure.

Then, there is the supply chain argument: the specialized turbines, components, vessels and manufacturing chains are manufactured overseas and imported to support Wind. RWE is itself German. It’s good to reduce dependence on foreign supply chains.

Fishing and maritime was also cited as a concern.

Onshore Wind is used (see New Mexico). Offshore Wind is a harder sell.

Gas/nuclear/geothermal is a better investment for the US than Offshore Wind.

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While these arguments are valid, you’re missing the forrest for the trees. Renewable energy has better long-term ROI because it doesn’t require constant purchase of fuel. Renewable energy plants also produce far, far less CO2 that goes into the atmosphere and endangers our biosphere (yours and mine).

>It’s good to reduce dependence on foreign supply chains

The fact that we're still basically entirely reliant on the middle east and other foreign producers for our domestic fuel supply suggests this isn't really that big of a deal. Even in the middle of a war that is generating massive profits for the oil industry, no one is suggesting they should add refinery capacity or convert existing ones to use domestic oil.

This move is about the president's personal vendetta against offshore wind and satisfying his financial backers in the fossil fuel industry.

I disagree.

The US is the largest producer of oil and natural gas in the world. We’re also a net energy exporter.

We import some crude because our refineries are set up for it. That’s a long way from being “entirely reliant” on foreign fuel.

We are indeed the largest producer of oil and natural gas. In this case, "some" is like 70%. Maybe that's not "entirely reliant", but it's far from independence. If other countries stopped selling us oil, our car-centric society would be FUBAR for some time.

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-produc...

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_d_nus_Z00_mbblp...

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_exp_dc_NUS-Z00_mbblpd_...

70% figure isn’t dependence on foreign oil for 70% of our consumption. The US both imports and exports huge amounts of petroleum.

And most US crude imports come from Canada, not the Middle East.

If the Middle East suddenly stopped it would cause a disruption but that’s very different than saying the US is reliant on the Middle East.

Do you know if it would be easier to get fully domestic supply and manufacturing chains for solar or for wind, if a way is found to prevent corruption undermining setting up fully domestic production?

For onshore wind, probably wind.

For offshore wind, not nearly as clear. The US still lacks a lot of the specialized vessels, ports and manufacturing capacity.

Solar has bigger upstream dependence on Asian wafer/cell production.

> The US still lacks a lot of the specialized vessels, ports and manufacturing capacity.

Maybe we should put the $1.2B into that sort of thing, then?

Forgive the ignorance, what drives the demand for offshore wind instead of on land anyway? Shorter power run to coastal cities vs longer transmission loss from exurban environments?

And with solar, I can't imagine that would be fast to stand up production for... but we're attempting the Herculean task with modern chip fabs. Would panels be harder than that? They both seem existential needs for the future of the country.

Offshore wind is far more reliable than onshore wind. Geography ensures that some ocean locations pretty much always have wind blowing. North Sea wind turbines have a capacity factor of about 60%, approximately double that of onshore wind turbines.

The other advantage of offshore is that it can support the truly massive wind turbines. Onshore wind turbines are a lot smaller.

I have much to learn, thanks!

> It’s good to reduce dependence on foreign supply chains.

Huh? That’s quite a whopper to drop as if it’s an obvious truth.

It’s good to diversify supply chains. Eggs-in-one-basket is bad for many reasons, even if it’s your own domestic basket.

Trade interdependence is good for competition, reduces risks from disasters, and creates disincentives for war.

And the market apparently thinks offshore wind is a good investement for the US, to the point where the government has to pay companies not to do it.

See

1. https://www.energy.gov/cmei/systems/securing-us-supply-chain...

2. https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy23osti/84710.pdf

3. https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-26-107769

4. https://www.energy.gov/cmei/wind/articles/report-outlines-su...

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