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Comment by anon-3988 | Hacker News Reader

> "Imagine a future where a handful of people can conduct scientific research and engineering tasks much more rapidly, and with higher quality, than massive teams of scientists and engineers do today."

I don't think the US have this capability because you guys don't really have manufacturing that is really necessary for scientific research.

For example, if I want a highly toxic chemical, how difficult it would be to procure that in the US vs China?

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>>> For example, if I want a highly toxic chemical, how difficult it would be to procure that in the US vs China?

With trustworthy composition and purity?

I work with researchers in both the US and China. Definitely easier to procure in the US.

Unless it's on a specific list of chemicals that the DEA has decided are bad and need to be monitored. Even toluene is on the list!

This is nonsense. "Monitored" is not the same as "unavailable", any chemistry lab worth its name has the means and procedures to acquire toluene in pretty much any quantity it wants. As long as you have the required licenses, keep careful administration and can produce said administration during inspections, there is nothing to worry about.

Does all that administration and licensing magically happen for free and take zero time? It's stupid extra overhead for something as fundamental as toluene that Chinese labs don't have to follow. You're right that it's not insurmountable, but it's still stupid extra work, and the threat of randomly being investigated for doing science is hardly "nothing too worry about". Just always have every one of your papers in order or else you go to jail is hardly a way to encourage people to want to go into science.

Or having to plead the fifth when asked about your work.

Or you know, just tell the truth? Doing legal things with controlled substances is not forbidden, provided you maintain the required documentation and safety measures. The point of the regulation is to prevent untrained randos from making TNT and synthesizing MDMA, not to prevent any toluene use at all.

I personally don't have any issue with explosive precursors being controlled more carefully, no. If it means we have to spend some more time and money organizing safe storage, that is a worthwhile price to deter the religious nut next door synthesizing TNT in their bathroom or having their own private fentanyl lab to poison the populace with.

The point of regulation is not to protect the producer, but to protect everyone else who has to live in the same society. If the Chinese make another tradeoff and sacrifice some of their citizens in the name of greater riches for the billionaire class, that is their problem.

> you guys don't really have manufacturing that is really necessary for scientific research

Yea no high quality science research happens in the US? What?

There is but the cost is way, way higher from what I can tell. If I want a customized metal shielding with awkward shapes, I can just walk down to Shenzhen and have 10 people clamoring to make it. Does the US have the same?

Yes believe it or not in the US you can also buy things from fabricators in Shenzhen.

If time is of the essence, or rapid prototyping is needed, the shipping hurdle is a real problem. Going down the street for the goods vs having them go across the globe is quite a difference…

Time is often not of the essence when doing fundamental research.

Not quite, but sendcutsend.com is good.

Maybe not 10, but my company (in the US) has relationships with several machine shops nearby (some within walking distance of our office) that do custom metal fabrication for us, and sendcutsend and xometry can handle more exotic stuff without having to ship it from Shenzhen. I think the bigger advantage of Shenzen is more for actually manufacturing at production volumes cheaply, although maybe if you need something really exotic? Custom metal fabrication is not a good example here, I have a neighbor who runs a custom CNC parts business out of his garage (said garage is largely taken up by his CNC mill).

Yeah, Orange County. They don't try to compete on price though, just quality and speed.

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