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Comment by Steko | Hacker News Reader

"Except the reality is that his last sentence should end ", no thanks to Apple"."

If Apple doesn't build it's own Maps, we still have the old shittier maps app though right?

Gruber in May:

"This is a high-pressure switch for Apple. Regressions will not be acceptable. The purported whiz-bang 3D view stuff might be great, but users are going to have pitchforks and torches in hand if practical stuff like driving and walking directions are less accurate than they were with Google’s data."

Can you almost hear him grit his teeth while he ... accurately predicts the mapping fiasco before the beta had even been released?

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> If Apple doesn't build it's own Maps, we still have the old shittier maps app though right?

Apple was unwilling to negotiate with Google because they are upset over Android. Apple could certainly have improved its existing Maps app if they were willing to play ball with Google. They weren't and now they look even more ridiculous because every iOS user can plainly see that Apple is worse at mapping than Google.

"Apple was unwilling to negotiate with Google because they are upset over Android."

Alternatively we could use our pretend mind reading in the other direction and say that "Google was unwilling to negotiate with Apple because they had them over the barrel?"

Or we could realize that there are two parties in a negotiation and come to the conclusion both did what would be expected and in the end users will certainly benefit the most by having lots of competition in the mapping space.

"Apple could certainly have improved its existing Maps app if they were willing to play ball with Google. "

Which would have left them bent over the barrel forever?

"every iOS user can plainly see that Apple is worse at mapping than Google."

Because previously so many users thought Apple was better at maps than Google?

> Apple was unwilling to negotiate with Google because they are upset over Android. Apple could certainly have improved its existing Maps app if they were willing to play ball with Google.

You speak like you have authoritative information on the negotiations between Apple and Google on maps. Your comment could be taken seriously if you backed it up with sources, instead of dressing up your personal opinion to sound like a fact.

No, you still can't easily highlight-open / link addresses to open in Google Maps, for example. Among other things, Apple is responsible for the old, shitty map, and they are responsible for not getting Google more native integration and having NIH syndrome. Plainly, "thanks to Apple," iOS6 Maps is a failure, and it is a huge misstep for one of (of two) the world's flagship mobile-OS.

> you still can't easily highlight-open / link addresses to open in Google Maps

And this is thanks to Apple's own my-way-or-the-highway design decisions with iOS. It's amazing how people still put up with not being able to change default application settings in iOS. Then again, that goes to show you how strong the RDF still is. Apple fanbois like Steko continue to come out of the woodwork any time Apple gets criticized, ready to defend them no matter what decision they've made.

"Apple fanbois like Steko continue to come out of the woodwork any time Apple gets criticized, ready to defend them no matter what decision they've made."

Me in this thread, 30 min before your post:

"This can only bring more and more focus onto iOS's most glaring weakness: the lack of contracts/intents/services. If the next version of iOS doesn't have it I think you will see jailbreaking go mainstream."

...

"fanbois like Steko"

Christ, what an asshole.

You only reinforced your reputation with that post. You made it clear that you think that people's response to Apple not fixing iOS's "most glaring weakness" will be to jailbreak, and not to leave iOS for greener pastures. Tell me again, what's the difference between Gruber's biased rhetoric and your own?

"You only reinforced your reputation with that post."

Because nothing says "Apple fanboi" like unprompted criticism of iOS. Spoilers: internet checkmate.

"You made it clear that you think that people's response to Apple not fixing iOS's "most glaring weakness" will be to jailbreak, and not to leave iOS for greener pastures."

I did not "make that clear", I gave one result which I think will be common. Some people will certainly leave too, and I could well be one of them (cmon Nexus 7 LTE) but you give up more of whatever you like about the platform by leaving than by jailbreaking so you'd have to value intents and contracts somewhat more.

Despite you repeatedly calling me a "fanboi" I have no special loyalty to Apple. Before I got my 4S almost a year ago I gave my wife my 3GS and used her shitty sony-ericson flip phone for 6 months and I was fine with that. I used Macs in college and despite liking them and abhoring Microsoft at that time the last 5 machines I've bought have all been PCs which I've been very satisfied with. If I was going to buy a new desktop today it would certainly be a pc. A new laptop? I suspect an ultrabook but it might be a retina MBP. In the same way I like the iphone but I don't stand in line on release day nor do I buy every one nor do I expect to always buy iphones or even phones in the future. The iphones I've bought have always been because, when I went to buy phones, it was the best phone. Now reasonable people may disagree with that assessment but there's also no shortage of objective evidence that supports it.

"Tell me again, what's the difference between Gruber's biased rhetoric and your own?"

I'll answer right after you let us know, have you stopped beating your wife?

I dont know if there is a good way of saying this, but I would personally find such feedback useful and there are no private messages on HN so here it is:

I do remember your username as maybe the second most Apple-biased contributor on HN. Feel free to say the same about me and Google if that is what you think...

"No, you still can't easily highlight-open / link addresses to open in Google Maps, for example."

I'm trying, unsuccessfully, to find what this is replying to.

"Among other things, Apple is responsible for the old, shitty map"

Which was wildly lauded when it came out and later stagnated due to mutual differences.

"they are responsible for not getting Google more native integration"

Seems like there were two parties involved.

"and having NIH syndrome"

It's not at all hilarious to scold Apple for NIH syndrome when we're talking about Apple and Google.

"Plainly, "thanks to Apple," iOS6 Maps is a failure, and it is a huge misstep for one of (of two) the world's flagship mobile-OS."

Plainly, iOS6 maps are passable and in some ways were better than the old shitty maps powered by Google and today's Google's maps is better than both by a big margin.

You'll note I don't say this is "Thanks to Apple" here but the "Apple is responsible for everything bad and everything good that happens is no thanks to Apple" meme that has taken over this discussion is utterly ridiculous.

I'm trying, unsuccessfully, to find how Google is to blame for the shortcomings of pre-iOS6 maps. Google didn't develop it. Google didn't poorly integrate it with the OS. So yes, absolutely, "If Apple doesn't build it's own [new and still shitty] Maps, we still have the old shittier maps app[, thanks to Apple,] though right?" Even STILL, there is no integration point for Google -- anyone that has bested Apple's offering(s) -- to integrate with the user's device. Only one party can change this involvement, everyone else is waiting with baited breath.

Apple should absolutely be scolded for what they sold to their users. Maps are one of, if not the most, important feature of a smartphone. Can you return your phone over it? They failed. Google is offering their's for "free."

Google couldn't be persuaded (or allowed) to commit code to native iOS? They couldn't be bought? I fail to see how they had the option to power anything, when they are willing to offer a superior solution for FREE!

I love how one of the straw men here is actually inserted in brackets along with a quote from me.

"I'm trying, unsuccessfully, to find how Google is to blame for the shortcomings of pre-iOS6 maps."

I'm trying, unsuccessfully, to find where someone is "blaming Google".

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