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Comment by vdfs | Hacker News Reader

These protocols add so much complications it makes wifi/tcp/ip a blaze

They fix some problems but add more, you endup just like that xckd about protocols

Having switched to zigbee devices recently I regret trying to start with WiFi. While I'm not sure how it looks under the hood, adding devices with home assistant was miles easier.

I've helped lots of people with home automation Network build outs l; the biggest factor is the RF environment.

If you're fortunate enough to not be battery constrained at most endpoints and can put a high quality Wi-Fi access point in an optimal location than Wi-Fi is incredibly reliable.

The tooling for inspecting all layers of a Wi-Fi network is infinitely more accessible and mature and that certainly helps; I can't go to My local big box store and get a USB thread dongle for 20 bucks that will just work on a Lennox computer and integrate nicely with Wireshark out of the box...

No, you have to order it from Mouser for $16 instead.

Fixed link: https://www.mouser.com/en/ProductDetail/Nordic-Semiconductor...

And there’s a little configuration: https://wiki.makerdiary.com/nrf52840-mdk-usb-dongle/guides/n...

Dead product link

Sorry I thought I was removing tracking bits from the URL. It’s fixed now.

I have a Unifi home network with two Wifi 7 access points and gigabit ethernet. For home automation, I went with ZWave and do not regret it at all. It's been rock solid and I've never felt the need to get a dongle to debug the traffic. I don't want to be working through all of the WiFi baggage with my home automation devices. I recently introduced some Zigbee bulbs (hue and cheapos from Amazon) and they've been mostly "fine", albeit with lower range.

> For home automation, I went with ZWave and do not regret it at all. It's been rock solid and I've never felt the need to get a dongle to debug the traffic.

That's because zwave requires everything go through certification process. You pay more for this, but things generally just work.

It's an entirely different situation in zigbee land though.

I stick with ESPHome and MQTT because I can inspect and modify the behaviors of everything with free and open tools.

Wi-Fi was never unreliable. The devices that used WiFi were much worse to work with and setup.

Thread is fairly similar to Zigbee, just standardized and doesn't require brand specific hubs. You can actually control thread devices direct from an iphone with no hub at all.

Wifi for anything but cameras is a mistake, it only exists for maximum compatibility since everyone has wifi already.

Wifi for cameras is arguably also a mistake

Cameras that require internet to connect to are a mistake, but cameras that use Wifi for local link are fine (wifi is perfect for this). And, having some way to connect remotely is a requirement, for most everyone.

I took their point to be about wifi being jammable

Yeah first thing burglars are gonna do is jam your wifi camera so you don't have any video of them. Run cat-5 and get a PoE camera.

And be sure your outdoor cameras are on an isolated VLAN so people can't just plug in to your home network.

I read this as sarcastic but it's a thing. Simplisafe, for example, is trivially jammed.

Yeah, not sure why people are downvoting you. I suspect because most people run wifi cameras and don't see the reason to run a ethernet cable.

If you are halfway serious about your home security, you should use ethernet. It's trivial for thieves to jam wifi now.

Security system that can be jammed is a terrible idea. Cameras should be wired. Ideally on separate network and with battery backup.

> Wifi for anything but cameras

Buttons (key presses, remotes - think rapid input), Knobs, sliders, Pixel LED' strips, some MM wave sensors, ir/radio transmitters, really need wifi.

There is products where you will want a bluetooth proxy, plenty of kitchen/grill thermometers and scales for kitchen and bathroom are great examples.

Where range is an issue LoRa is a thing that has plenty of devices and is easy to DIY.

My matter over thread devices (inovelli) for light switches work faster and better then my old wifi devices (cync)

A bit of clarification: Thread is a layer 2 protocol, for the user, it looks like standard IPv6. Matter is application level, and just expect standard TCP/IP underneath. There's nothing binding Matter to Thread, and in fact a lot of Matter devices use Wifi

I wish we had multimodal Matter devices that could go over Thread or Wi-Fi (or even wired networking) depending on conditions.

We don't want incredibly flexible devices. I think we learned that lesson many times, including with ZigBee. If there's one standard, there's only one standard.

Thats exactly what Matter over Thread solves. It just uses standard ipv6, udp, tcp.

WiFi is not designed for lots of low energy devices that can be repeaters.

I studied zigbee protocol for an exam and while everything is there for a reason, it truly feels diabolical

Some specifics would be a great addition to this comment.

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