Superlogical
superlogical.com
superlogical.com
> We will build on libghostty exactly as it was designed to be used: as a public building block for terminal applications. Superlogical will consume the same MIT-licensed components available to everyone else, and we will continue to upstream shared terminal work so every libghostty consumer can benefit.
- pi-web (https://pi-web.dev/): a web frontend for the Pi coding harness which can multiplex pi sessions across multiple machines
- herdr (https://herdr.dev/): a fairly polished agentic multiplexer TUI, can easily spawn or destroy windows based on subagent activity
- firstmate (https://github.com/kunchenguid/firstmate): a meta environment for coding harnesses - more naturally handles spawning and communicating with subagents, managing worktrees, and other SDLC functions, and has a fairly large number of constraints thru bash scripts to ensure better results with less intelligent models
Its intended as a terminal agent orchestrator aimed at power users who want a little more design than what I like to call 'hackerman' UXes.
The first app in this space was VibeTunnel[1]. It basically lets you start terminals on your Mac and the web app allows you to control these terminals on your iPhone using Tailscale. In the end, it’s just terminals on the web with organization around it.
I forked VibeTunnel and turned it into a Next app and added workspaces with memory and turned it into a software factory which is making open-source alternatives for me while I sleep. I call it VibeGhost and will be launching it soon[2].
0. https://opensource.builders/alternatives/conductor
- Paseo (https://github.com/getpaseo/paseo)
- t3code (https://github.com/pingdotgg/t3code)
Frankly I don't know a single person who does all this extra meta-agentic customization that gets anything done. You all are like the people who do nvim configurations all day and think they're being productive.
They are copying proprietary SaaS solutions and releasing them as opensource, at least according to what I understand from https://openship.org/
For Openship, the end goal is a decentralized marketplace.
This ethos goes into more detail
I understand it has the agent pane on the left that tells you what is running but... that's it?
It’s fine.
When running many agents something like the “idle/working workstreams” gutter is honestly helpful though.
Realistically, what I use about its agent stuff is:
- reliable notification pings either via what your terminal app uses (e.g., ghostty's) or system or just within herdr only
- if absolutely necessary, be able to tell agent sessions to observe and run commands on a herdr pane (security beware, for obvious reasons)
- herdr --remote which is basically a quick SSH -> attach to herdr on a remote
- prefix+g (equivalent to prefix+w in tmux) presents itself nicer, has binds for agent state filtering and its /search imho is mildly nicer than tmux's
Arguably, you can have the same points in others if you know how to configure tmux or zellij already, so if you're comfortable with that then you really don't have to use herdr.
Herdr holds potential in stuff like their socket API ( https://herdr.dev/docs/socket-api/ ) and whatever enhancements they wish to bring (e.g., https://herdr.dev/docs/agent-automation/ ) so if that appeals to others, it's worth a shot.
But for most regular users, tmux and other multiplexers work just fine.
So an opportunity to learn the Bitter Lesson [1].
If tmux is good enough for people today, it should be good enough for agets tomorrow. That gap might comprise a beachhead. But you'd better scramble off the shores onto something more defensible fast.
[1] http://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html
Also, herdr is just an open source project with no VC capital behind it. So I don't think it needs to scramble to something more defensible. It can live a happy life pleasing users and then fade into obsolescence.
tmux is good enough for agents today. they're great at driving it, they're great at customizing it, what's the problem people have with it? i am confused.
This aged like milk!
I rebuild herdr from master every few days to gauge the direction it’s moving in.
What herdr gets right over zellij:
- Default keybinds don’t conflict with helix. Even the leader key mode in zellij keeps alt-bindings around. Herdr keeps things nicely tucked away.
- There’s beta support for the kitty image protocol. Three years on, we’re still waiting in zellij.
- Notifications get passed correctly through to the terminal.
As for herdr’s killer feature, agent status monitoring, there is apparently a zellij plugin.
Big win for zellij: the docs and code feel human. By contrast, herdr’s docs have all the tells of a vibe coded project. Not to say the maintainer hasn’t put care into it! But I’m getting burned out on LLM docs.
To even get started with tmux you need to invest days to learn the keyboard commands. And yes good luck merging windows.
I can’t wait to forget all of the useless cli crap that Unix forced me to learn because nobody gave a damn about ux.
Overall I think I don't even want to start coding too much on the go with a setup like this but it's nice to have options :)
It does capture a provenance graph for any ad-hoc shell commands executed in the shell mode, or if prepended by `sci run`, by tracing all new files created from commands, and creating an accompanying json file for every output with metadata, which can later be assembled into a graph specific to any output file, using the `sci tohtml` or `sci toshell` commands (producing an HTML report with an SVG graph, or a reproducing shell script, respecively).
I'm quite bullish of the possibilities with this approach.
And, this was in fact also born out of the thinking to "rip apart" workflow tools, and build them up again using small, well-defined tools that do one thing well.
I'm working this with https://boxes.dev - a workspace for launching and managing claude + codex sessions, each running in its own cloud devbox.
We launched with a desktop app but have gotten a lot of pull for terminal-driven workflows, so have a TUI as well. It's interesting - when the Codex desktop app launched I was so sure that GUI is the future for coding agents (it's just a chat!). But turns out there's no killing the CLI
I do like having a permanent, remote workbox, but am a lot less keen on the idea of ephemeral boxes unless you're a company willing to invest into that infra.
If linux, can you name 1-2 advantages the desktop has over the terminal?
- drag and drop
- show document type, icon and filename
- inline images
- variable fonts, esp. monospace for code blocks
So GUI is mainly about readability. CLI works fine too but is inherently limited. I think GUI agents will keep pushing further in information layout, rendering, retrieval and interactivity. We're just at the beginning of it.
The only advantage of the terminal is that it’s easier to use on remote machines. I can’t think of anything else, even the usual benefits of composing commands is not relevant for a CLI like Claude Code.
Why?
The guideline do not mention this, apart maybe from:
If the title includes the name of the site, please take it out, because the site name will be displayed after the link.
> We are building the multiplexer for all work.
imo this would have been a better way to do the HN submission title (with or without [terminal])
> Superlogical: We are building the [terminal] multiplexer for all work
I almost get tmux -- although I still don't understand why it's better than simply opening multiple terminal window instances like I've always done in Windows -- but I'm struggling to see how the concept of terminal multiplexing applies elsewhere.
A multiplexer's job is to do the whole multiple tabs/panes/windows thing independently of the terminal itself, but (a) the UX for eg. tmux is so much worse than that of a good terminal UI, and (b) you only need that if you plan on connecting remotely (see my other comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49108483).
So you launch a process with nohup(1). This puts SIGHUP and others on ignore status, redirects output to a file, and then executes your process. This is similar to how a daemon starts, when it explicitly dissociates from any terminal device.
With tmux or screen, a layer of pseudo-ttys (ptys) is created, and process groups are managed, so your terminal's pty is only connected to the master tmux process, and each subprocess/window is assigned a new pty and process group of its own, as if you had remotely logged in to each shell.
So tmux is now handling SIGHUP and can detect when your terminal or session closes out. The persistence of subprocesses comes from the fact that they aren't receiving SIGHUP and that they are still associated with pty, as tmux is running "daemonized" until you reattach.
This is based on developing on a remote server - but even locally, I find it invaluable. Multiple terminal windows are fine, but some times you want multiple windows. Even in a pre-ai world, you might want to run a process, see the code, edit, and maybe have htop or something like that. If you ever NEED multiple terminal windows for the same thing, tmux is really the answer.
So when I dip my toes into the Linux world, the first thing I do (or rather ask an LLM harness to do, being much less familiar with Linux than I am with Windows) is set up an RDP host. That way I can follow the same basic workflow on both OSes. I don't need to do anything special with terminal windows.
I guess if I were running truly headless systems that don't even have a VGA frame buffer, I'd be more interested in multiplexing. But so far I haven't had to do that, and would probably resist it because a persistent desktop strikes me as better in general than letting applications including terminals worry about their own lifetimes.
The usual arguments make no sense if you’re only on your local machine:
- You can detach the session: well yeah, I can minimize the terminal window too.
- You can have multiple tabs/windows in a session: yup, same with my window manager
- You can keep multiple sessions and attach/detach from them whenever: I can do that with multiple desktops in my window manager
And so on.
But, once you want to do all of this on a remote server, it all makes sense: putting my laptop to sleep shouldn’t end the session on the server. If I get disconnected for some reason, I should be able to reattach and resume it if I reconnect. So then you have the session run on the server and you only “attach” to it when you connect, and if your terminal has good integration, new tabs become new tmux tabs etc… it’s all transparent.
It’s also useful if you’re running a session locally but anticipate wanting to attach to it from somewhere else: if your terminal session is tmux from the start, you can transparently attach to it from another machine too.
But, if you’re just dealing with one machine, who cares, just skip the multiplexer. (It’s literally not “multi” plexing if there’s only one client!)
Another thing worth mentioning is that if your terminal doesnt have good tmux integration, and you’re only running locally anyway, your life is strictly worse off with tmux: scrolling is a horribly broken hack, buffer search sucks, copy/paste never works, switching open terminals is an awkward ctrl+b contortion, etc. No amount of fiddling with your tmux config is going to make the UX as good as a decent terminal has, and I will die on this hill. :-)
The idea is amazing, making this work consistently requires effort, and a lot of it. And as only a few applications invested this effort, it only works with a few applications and never really took off outside of Microsoft. I think this used to work with WordPad and maybe even Notepad but it no longer does, you just get an image instead of the chart object in WordPad and nothing at all in Notepad. It is a dying technology.
But that's because today's world is forcing us towards overwhelming risk management and compliance systems like NIST 800-53 and friends. If anything, these mechanisms are being drawn, quartered, and spread to the opposite corners of the Earth.
Control via configuration management systems with configuration drift detection etc. Outputs and diagnostics via monitoring, logging, audit, and accountability systems. Authorization systems with extreme least privilege, draconian rules for privileged role assumption. Interaction removed from the entire operations plane, so it only exists in some application domain concepts as a sort of ship in a bottle, which eventually perversely recurses into the same mindset for domains with interesting content and user roles.
Lots of access path restrictions intentionally limiting which usage scenario is available in which combination to which user type from which locale with which client device.
So the idea of flexible and convenient fusion of many different IO and control paths into a portable and remotely attachable terminal UX seems like the complete antithesis..?
The Visual Basic empowers a whole generation of non-coders to become sort of coders causes security issues? Yeah, I think I can do that with AI.
First time seeing `ssh superlogical.jobs` would be a way to show job descriptions in terminal!
Why? Because if you use SSH to connect to connect to GitHub, your SSH public key is published at https://github.com/<username>.keys so an SSH server to which you connect could do a reverse lookup.
This is the reason why my ~/.ssh/config has those 2 lines at the end:
Host *
PubkeyAuthentication no
"Woah, he must really want a j--- oh."
But try also `TERM=dumb ssh superlogical.jobs` for an alternate, monochrome, experience.
Undocumented keys h,j,k,l also work to navigate the UI.
Any other easter eggs?
I thought it was't that long ago, may be 8, or at best 10-12 years.
Turns out 16 years has passed.
Curious if it would be another project using Zig.
I checked the available jobs and they are hiring Typescript for web, Go for infrastructure,systems, Objective-C, swift for Apple
I dig the ssh jobs page, UX is very good.
Personally I'd recommend they hire someone who has done native windows like its 2001 and is willing to use Zig.
Most of the time when I need to touch a Windows program I'm dealing with the Telegram desktop client which is C++ and a mixture of Qt and "native" Windows. (Well, that, and when I have to touch an ancient C# code base which requires doing the equivalent of archeology in order to get all of its dependent libraries to work.)
They better acquire it, if their product catches on.
Building with wireguard directly instead of tailscale would have been my choice, but of course it requires more plumbing.VC money means they gotta move fast.
But as a potential user, I won't pay for tailscale just to use their product.
There is also Headscale if you want to self host.
Headscale seems interesting! I'll check it out
The 'cleanest' experience I've got for what I want is mosh + tmux and even that has issues (no block cursor for example).
If superlogical's ultimate goal is to revamp the Linux developer ecosystem, all for it. Am potentially worried long term about these kinds of strategies from a political point of view but as long as things stay open source and stay as local dev tools, its fine.
I've found that I'm making compromises that keep integration with existing systems minimal at the cost of perfect aesthetics :(
I always get a "lifestyle business" vibe when tech companies are based in LA or NY. When you're a seasoned veteran you'd prefer to live in a larger, more fun city, even though tech is concentrated in the Bay Area
(This is not, in my mind, either a good or a bad thing.)
i think just michael is based on LA, so he prefers having the offices near his home (has kids, etc), and has enough FU money to not need to let the VC's dictate where the HQ's are located at.
I guess also they dont love the idea of managing people remotely for a small startup/first hires, although im sure for the right person they wouldn't really care (or usually this is how it goes on most small companies/startups)
In silicon valley/tech it's sometimes treated as a derogatory term.
That space is often confused with “tech”, and obviously overlaps with it, but its not the same thing.
And here we now have people saying stuff like this again.
Also, long live the "lifestyle business" if it means people just making businesses that bring in non-exponential but justifiable and sustainable income ... like, y'know, a business is supposed to. Good grief.
Are they the champions of collaboration or the champions of company culture?
P.S. That custom disappearing scrollbar doesn't look super logical; it doesn't even look logical, tbh.
1. it will be incredible
2. it will be composable
3. it will be safe to use in production
I would totally invest millions into these guys, they have a bright future ahead.
If it is ‘just’ a better tmux-like experience, then that could be very useful if these agentic workflows actually arrive.
Why reinvent the wheel?
/s
Yes, building those solutions requires a lot of expertise, but I've never found the tools to be worth engaging with over just using what the standard platform tools they abstract away were replacing. Then you add in the economic rug-pull scenarios that have happened when utilizing software like this and I wonder why everyone hops on the bandwagon so easily.
What is the company they're building trying to solve that system maintainers can't already do? Isn't this just rebuilding OS windowing?
Why not meet people where they are at?
If this product isn't valuable, then it will fail. I suspect it will not fail.
We're talking about abstracting generic OS windowing/multiplexing for what sounds like an agent-based development workflow modality where you're referring to what's happening in the panes/tabs/windows instead of the containers themselves.
We're not talking about software abstractions.
Hopefully that's not the endgame?
I've had to use the aws cli at work a few times (not an expert), but I could see aws trying to compete here if this becomes a thing.
As a specific example of this, I've been using emacs since about 1997, but it's only this year that I've started down this sort of "integrate everything" road that it promises, because I've never wanted to learn emacs' specific Lisp variant that is used nowhere else. But now with AI I've done more emacs extensions that are providing real value to me than I have in the last... ever. About my previous limit was reifying a keyboard macro into a command, which still isn't really programming emacs.
The ability to indicate "intent" in a way that computers can actually process it as "intent" might change the calculus enough to make this more possible than it used to be in the past.
But those tradeoffs are real. Non-determinism is a problem. Difficulty in knowing what the AI is doing unless you're staring at its output, and even the ability to conceivably monitor an AI's output is only a transient thing we have at the moment, they'll speed up past our ability to monitor them at all soon enough. But it's at least a new area that can be explored and there may be solutions to some problems in there we couldn't reach before.
Goes ahead and butchers the browser scrollbar.
Ghostty rocks and it brings me no pleasure to say this, but it seems unclear how much longer this world will exist?
I still regularly need to edit text files and use nvim for that. Sometimes I even use it to edit a prompt. I like to prompt my system by writing .md files to help get through the planning phase, and then I like to edit the generated todo list.
To make it more relevant: right now I mostly rely on tmux. Before that I’ve been a long time user of screen (irssi over ssh people know this play). Looking forward to this.
https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/business/article/shopify-...
- 1% tax of 10 million = 100k
- 20% tax of 100k = 20k
Hence, the rich pays more tax.
If there was an unequal vote, I am pretty sure rich people would want votes as heavy as possible.
Instead, he makes sure to include the idea of stripping low-income people of all voting rights.
Not at all. The idea is that his class claim very little income, if any income. His income class is ~$0 (or believed to be, at least). You can certainly make an argument that the claim isn't true, that the ultra-wealthy are actually already paying huge sums in income tax, but then you cannot take the thread out of context. It was clearly directed at those who believe the wealthy pay no income tax. It literally says so. Did you skip step one and not go back to read it again?
> He caps his example at 800k reported income, if I remember
You are correct, approximately, but there would have been no need to remember given step one, so that was clearly ignored. Why? What is the purpose of replying without even reading the comment you are replying to?
I don't think memory fails me on the main points. If you think ranking the same read facts differently from you means faulty reading, I don't really owe you the labor of explaining where that fails.
Yes, that is the one we are talking about. The pension comment was posted earlier and isn't directly applicable to the discussion taking place.
The other comment did happen, to be sure. I guess we can change the subject if you want to. The comment that came prior to it asserted that the only way to solve the housing crisis is to take the power away from those who most participate in local government (i.e. retired people). To which Tobi suggested that one way to address that is to allow one to choose power or a pension, but not both, suggesting that pensioners have become dependents and thus no longer have any real stake in the future of a locality.
Which certainly isn't a novel idea. I've heard the same thing many times from people who are ostensibly poor. Many honestly believe that retirees (a.k.a. boomers) who "got theirs" are why housing is out of their reach. You could make a good case that Tobi was trying to play up "I'm just like the little guy" when he isn't actually, but if that is the case, what is our takeaway from that?
Exactly. Which means the plan is automatically invalidated by its own design. It literally states that it exists only to appease those who believe that the wealthy don't pay tax, which is unnecessary as the wealthy already do pay tax. I guess that's what makes it a good plan. It is already in effect!
“Today a man owns a jackass worth fifty dollars, and he is entitled to vote; but before the next election the jackass dies. The man in the meantime has become more experienced, his knowledge of the principles of government, and his acquaintance with mankind, are more extensive, and he is therefore better qualified to make a proper selection of rulers — but the jackass is dead and the man cannot vote. Now gentlemen, pray inform me, in whom is the right of suffrage? In the man or in the jackass.”
We don't judge the founding fathers' morals by the same metrics we judge our contemporaries. That much should be obvious.
Along with a myriad of different controversies. Just searching his name will bring up many articles about his chronically online Elon Musk wannabe takes.
> Shopify CEO Tobias Lütke faced fierce online backlash in July 2026 after endorsing a social media proposal for a tax-tiered voting system that would strip voting rights from non-taxpayers and give multiple votes to high-income earners.
but if we go as far as to say
> If it’s touched by Tobias Lütke, I’m out.
does it mean control or sponsored, for example ladybird web browser...
Are you talking about the fact they do not accept pull requests? If yes, they had good reasons for doing so, LLMs make it really time consuming and exhausting to manage an open source community, I completely understand why they decided to stop accepting PRs for now
Related post on Reddit from this week which discusses DHH's journey from left to right - https://www.reddit.com/r/rails/comments/1v95spw/what_the_hel...
* https://x.com/rauchg/status/1972669025525158031
* https://x.com/search?q=from:lennypruss%20israel&src=typed_qu...
Visual Studio as the IDE for building windows client apps, especially WinForms, was and still is a genuinely incredible and productive experience. The ease of which you could click-and-drag a UI, context switch to logic in the code behind the forms, wire up a web service backend, share domain models and have navigation and search tools understand all of it was great. And the TFS integration was quite good too. You really only had to leave VS to do database work or administer some IIS pools.
Unfortunately, it couldn't keep up with the rest of the dev world. "Server Explorer" morphed to include your Azure VMs but froze for 30s each time you opened it. Docker tools came in super late, most Azure services didn't really have a VS tooling experience. The "right click publish" workflow meant for small systems never figured out how to graduate to real-world needs across many teams. Developers had to learn how to use many other tools for modern stuff, and so VS became far less of a center of gravity, often to their annoyance.
> so you can close the application, reconnect from another device, and pick up exactly where you left off.
I think this is the remote IDE development dream that no one could quite get right, partly because there wasn't enough reason to run things on a 24/7 device. I think with coding agents that can run in the background this changes.
> Sessions can be accessed through the web and native macOS/iOS applications, and sharing a live session with other people is built in from the start.
I'd really like to point out that "Sharing a live session" is horrible UX for a terminal multiplexer because the terminal has to be the same size (# of rows/cols) on all viewers' screens, and some of these viewers may be on a phone and others on a laptop. Believe it, I tried myself and there's no good way around the problem.
What is interesting is that they added this sentence anyway. This tells me that their long-term endgame is not the terminal. They're most likely trying to build a GUI-based agent IDE and then eventually expand to other work (per their headline of being the "multiplexer for all work") as it all gets more and more agent-based anyways. Well, they're not alone in having that vision.
Jetbrains is valued around $7bil and their business is almost exclusively in IDEs.
Wolfram Research is valued probably around $100mil and their business also mostly consists of an IDE product.
---
With AI, I think the future of IDEs will be very split. A lot less work will happen in IDEs (in terms of LOC), but at the same time, I think AI will allow for a more sophisticated build-out of IDEs, so e.g. debug experiences will become a lot richer.
JetBrains would disagree, as would I.
Nevertheless I agree this is the next _evolution_ in IDEs.
I use pi as my primary harness and then Claude code and Codex (but with the desktop app for some very specific things)
The last two have remote capability with their own app. With pi, you have extensions that can do remote access, but you still end up with three different places to look to get remote access properly from your phone.
People also use tmux and Zellij and any other number of combinations of different apps combined with some kind of remote access, but nothing that's unified and does everything all at once in one place. I feel like that's a good problem to solve if you can do it better.
It doesn't solve the fundamental problem however of inverting the flow from one human to many agents to many agents to one agent to one human.
[0]: https://github.com/stablyai/orca [1]: https://github.com/neurosnap/zmx
I don't actually use a multiplexer. I'm not sure I understand the use case when most terminal emulators supports tabs + windows (like iTerm2 does). Or you could just launch multiple windows and use your OS's window manager to "multiplex". Are the terminals connected in some way that I'm missing?
Regardless, I think Ghostty is a reminder that you can win in a space that's crowded. There's probably a lot of widely used software that would get dropped en masse immediately if someone had the guts to make a better alternative.
Multiplexers have a lot of little papercuts and limitations when you want consistent and native-to-the-OS behavior to flow all the way between the OS and the apps and connections in the multiplexers. For example, gesture scrolling in a tmux/zellij pane is hard because the right events don't flow through. It's an itch to scratch like designing a good terminal lib (like ghostty.)
And then, there's all the unifying and smoothing out of data connections--I imagine they'll be a lot to make sure that, e.g., an ssh session or a Claude code session in a pane can be seamlessly reconnected or never drop when the pane is closed. This takes a lot of hacking to make look seamless in most setups right now.
Like mitchell, I write a lot of software around multiplexers, and I've thought about making something similar, but I don't have quite the same level of personal wealth or angel investor connections. :)
herdr and mosh are a couple of reference points for this, there are others.
I'm not sure what is meant by this, I can mouse over a pane in zellij and use two-finger scrolling to scroll only that pane without any problem.
If the app is offering what appears to be momentum, it's implemented its own acceleration/deceleration algorithm. That's a lot to ask of an app, and they aren't equally good.
Detecting a wide range of underlying terminal support for a CLI app is a pain and prone to errors/drift.
There are various plugins that attempt to solve this, but it'd be nice for someone to solve it once and for all, and then upstream those layers into open source as this project is promising to do.
I don't get the whole GPU rendering thing for ghostty either. Its a terminal emulator. It shows plain text. Why would I need GPU acceleration? I never felt "yeah, this terminal needs faster rendering".
Maybe I'm just an idiot
It's sort of what I'm doing already -- using emacs-server to provide portable persistent sessions on top of a bunch of terminals, agents and editor buffers.
It's a 1% effort on my part and super janky and super me-specific -- if somebody put a small fraction of the effort into it that others are putting into superlogical and the other alternatives listed here, it could be awesome....
Yes, but good, standardized developer tooling is valuable.
Postman could’ve also been a “just use CURL and dump to JSON” for example.
I actually am bullish on this. Tmux and ssh are somewhat clunky and probably under utilized by most people. I struggle to find commands, navigate sessions, see history, and so on.
Also in an “agent” based world where you might ask an agent to execute things for you, how do you manage that context well beyond just giving it its own Tmux session to drive?
It’s a good idea, and I’m surprised no one’s built it sooner.
Emacs is downright friendly compared to git & tmux IMO.
The Emacs parts of it are all either stock or partially or fully broken.
I've got notification support but it's broken.
I'd love to use agent-shell because it's a much better way to interact with agents than using their stupid TUI's, but it's currently broken with Claude for me and is way behind the claude TUI.
So instead I use claude-code-ide.el inside of a ghostel, but it's got a large number of friction points. Mostly due to claude's broken TUI.
The other problem is it does have to be hosted somewhere, and if you run it locally, it goes away when you close your laptop. If you run it remotely, you have the latency to the remote site. I suspect Superlogical is going to find a way to fix this problem.
There’s clearly room to improve our existing tools.
Anyway, I'm very happy to see someone with Michell's talent entering this space. We can use more options with sane defaults and great performance.
can't wait for more details!
Also, interesting permission problems. Are you going to allow a remote server owned by someone else have shell access to all of your computers? Are they allowed to train an LLM from all the things you type?
Very interesting idea! I would be glad to collaborate on it.
Here's my contacts and GH https://massimo.deluisa.bio (or https://xn--obk691h.com my poor website).
Anyway, I wish you @mitchellh the best of luck with this new adventure!
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Adobe_Fl...
What's your approach?
Still a lot of big problems like latency so I’m not too happy with the current design. It’s a LOT of state to replicate, and obviously things get problematic when an agent was working on a project on machine A but then ends up on machine B which doesn’t have that project directory around at all. So the agent needs to re-orient itself to figure out what happened. Still pretty fun to play with.
This is going to change so many things if it starts getting adopted.
Still very interested. Especially if you will go further than terminal - multiplexer for window environment, not just in terminal
I spend most of my time in the terminal and have been using tmux to manage my sessions and workspaces, mainly via sesh.
But recently, I decided to move to Kitty and use its built-in sessions instead. I built something around it as well. It’s still early, but I’m really liking this workflow so far.
Hmm, yeah - no thanks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobias_L%C3%BCtke#Voting_right...
Ya'll really need to checkout that 15 year old talk from Peter Thiel about not building the same thing as everyone else. LLMs have destroyed problem solving, creative thinking in general. Why don't you people actually solve problems that matter and are original rather than making the equivalent of nvim configurations of the llm era?
People probably had just as many uncreative ideas before, but lacked the ability to execute on them. Remember the "idea guys" constantly looking for tech cofounders to build their "brilliant" visions? Now, LLMs have given them the ability to execute.
I will admit that I've used https://herdr.dev/ before because unlike tmux, it displays the status of running LLM agents.
As long as you are rich all the VCs will throw money at you.. fine.. but if you are rich then you don't have to take the VC money either. Just do it out of passion.
Ghostty is the client side aspect of this (the binary that actually runs on your laptop), but there will be a large backend system that the binary talks to through an API. With the API you can then also start automating sessions, for example when a metrics value trips an alert start an agent to triage with a session you can then attach to for further interrogation.
What Im not sure of is if they are going to build on top of kubernetes or not, which already provides a lot of the features necessary (etcd store, API server, workload orchestration, tenant isolation, extendable API).
(This is all speculation)
https://github.com/blmarket/hmux
Idea is to keep everything feel same with tmux, just add what's necessary for agent integrations.
I use tmux on windows and elsewhere when I must
They both have pluses and minuses, neither is perfect and both (yes even tmux) seem “old” in today’s world
There is definitely room for a next gen terminal multiplexer with all the built-in goodies we all want
I signed up
That's not a bug, it's a feature. With exceptions, I think wanting to change that is misguided and won't fly anyway.
why this feels the next step is data collection and Ads?
Not being snarky. What AI systems have they built?
tmux but with sane UX/controls being usable by non-vim binding people is important.
https://go.superlogical.com --> https://superb.systems/
edit: aand someone fixed it :) I guess that must've been their older branding (it was a very beautiful website)
This actually works!
I’m pretty new to NixOS (a few months) but i could envision using Nix to declarativey configure tmux windows and panes in a dev shell. That said, Nix feels like it might still be too clunky at this point in time to quickly re-declare window and panel arrangements. But I never tried and it could be possible.
In other words, this probably won't directly involve changes to ghostty.
> We're building the multiplexer for all work.
Devs again thinking "work" is interchangeable with software engineering.
Curious as to how this will be different than K8s?
Unless this is only for the narrow band of purely local work, I would be surprised if k8s didn't play a big role in the backend solution. It is the standard "well-crafted underlying system" for automatic production work. But, it isn't strong in the interactive-work/frontend aspect or other aspects, so it certainly wouldn't be the main focus of the final product.
Random example: you want to multiplex some work across multiple (self-hosted) agents, using niche fine-tuned models. It would make good sense if those agents were automatically provisioned and deprovisioned (and isolated to your subtenant), and k8s is a great underlying system for that sort of thing.
This isn't a statement of value, I'm genuinely curious myself. In fact, I bet this new thing will probably be better.
Bloomberg terminal dead soon
People keep saying "yeah, it's customizable!", but I can't be bothered doing that.
...only native macOS/iOS applications. Not a good look.
With most of them being VC or high-count angel investors, they can combined push whatever product is being built here into 200+ companies independent of whether it is good or not. What happened to the good old way of figuring out product market fit first? Is that the only way a product can succeed nowadays, or why else would a ~billionair that could easily fund it himself pull in that many investors that early?
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I'm excited to see what Superlogical will build, but the startup scene seems to grow more clique-y by the day.
Superlogical (allegedly) uses it for the multiplexer.
Mitchell Hashimoto is just the icing on the cake and he has a track record of building defining dev tools used by millions of devs.
So it makes sense why you see 15 angel investors.
More money / investment in the dev tool space is great for everyone!
I'm also not doubting that there would be tons of investors throwing themselves at him for a new venture like this.
But why, apart from forced market access would it be in his interest to take that money, given that he can nicely fund it for a few years with ~1% of his net worth if not for forced market access?
2. Recruiting - many people would be wary of working on a rich guy's pet project. Taking investment makes it more of a real company that has to deliver something and is not subject solely to the whims of one person.
It said they are funded, but it doesn't mean they lost control or have to be VC hyper growth. Apart from Notable Capital and Amplify Partners all others are individuals. There are lots of benefits having these group of company founders and CEO as investors. They are likely interested in the problem space as well.
Had it been hyper growth startup you would be looking at a16z or other bigger names.
Ah, I see you have figured it out the thing that has always been the case.
- it demonstrates they have funding (pre-empting "no-one will fund something weird like this")
- its transparent and open (pre-empting "which bastards are the ones who really own it?")
Investors can be good for funding but they can also be good for education. Later, they're also very good for strategy.
> What happened to the good old way of figuring out product market fit first? Is that the only way a product can succeed nowadays
Generally it's very challenging. I have two products I'm building this way and you face a lot of up-hill climb where people with VC backing are getting the door opened for them. Of course, because of those same pressures to deliver and succeed, it's equally possible those same doors will eventually get closed on them.
I think Mitchell also lives in a bit of a bubble now. He went from friendly open source guy to very rich friendly open source guy. That's no knock on him, but I would consider viewing business from the perspective of someone who has been a CEO, CTO, and IC at the same company (his company) as his only job who became insanely wealthy as a result. I have a friend who has largely only worked in big tech, and successful startups, who tells me all the time level and salary don't matter to him. They don't matter to him because he found success early. Again, not a knock but sustained success will shape how you view the world and how you play the game.
Insert "It always was" meme
That was my question, too. Does Mitchell even need to take outside funding? I get why you would prefer to use others' poker chips instead of your own, especially if they're happy to give them to you, but usually funding comes with strings attached.
Something something "never spend your own money if you can spend someone else's money." That plus the perception of having those specific investors gives the idea/business fast authority/prestige.
It's not the gangster move, but it's a move.
But it does make sense that those who are footing the bill for everything might be consulted a little on the plans to spend.
He’s just looking at america post Citizens United and wishing he could ull the same shenans in Canada. It’s been working very well for the folks and orgs who can afford it
This is a normal and reasonable thought process.
This guy posted selfies with the war criminal Benjamin Netanyahu, did you really need his money?
I remember I heard a saying somewhere that if you can explain what you are doing in a few simple sentences, then is is this really something valuable?
From their website:
"Building and operating software today spans local machines, remote hosts, sandboxes, services, and production systems. It has many modes of operation: interactively with a human developer, automatically through CI and background processes, and increasingly through agents working in parallel.
[...]
We believe the missing layer is a durable session around the work itself: one that can span applications and environments, provide relevant context by default, expose structured data and actions, preserve history, and be driven by software while remaining visible and controllable by people.
[...]
This is our plan to build a multiplexer for all work: 1 Build an incredible multiplexer. 2 Make everything in it composable. 3 Make it safe and operable in production"
I think it’ll be fine