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Comment by RajT88 | Hacker News Reader

My wife and I own a restaurant. It's a tough business.

I feel like there must be more interest among native-born Americans in foreign food these days, based on the fact there's 3 Uzbek restaurants within a couple of neighboring cities (which are maybe 200k people total). There's apparently only ~2000 Uzbek-Americans in all of northern IL! And mostly concentrated over an hour's drive away from where these restaurants are.

That said, my wife and I were very interested to try the Tashkent bread. I think this article calls it out - it's better very fresh. It was really good, but not as amazing as we expected (maybe lunch is the time to dine at the Uzbek place closest to us).

I still find it amazing that even (probably) family-run restaurants for such a niche cuisine can make a go of it. I take it as a good sign about American dining preferences.

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I guess if you're a migrant, an ethnic restaurant (is that term politically correct?) is one of the most obvious businesses you can start.

The Thai government used to sponsor (not sure if they still do) Thai diaspora who want to open a restaurant in a foreign country, it was their way to market the country and attract tourists.

Migrant is actually the wrong word entirely, I think.

Migrants move around to follow the work. (Think more like "Nomad") Immigrants resettle in new places.

I'm reading more about it, and probably these restaurants survive based on a combination of:

- Family run, keeping labor low (labor always number 1 cost)

- Central Asian and Muslim customers (much more than just Uzbeks)

- Setting up in low-rent locations like strip malls

So a few big nights a week can sustain the family business. I guess there's a way it adds up to a profitable business.

>Migrant is actually the wrong word entirely, I think.

immigrant, im- (variant of in-) ; migrant into your country

emigrant, ex- ; migrant out of your country

both are still migrants. there is no specific cause for migration required to be an migrant.

you just need to move somewhere new to live.

You are technically correct. The best kind of correct!

In terms of common usage though, it's as I said, especially in North America.

I believe they were asking whether or not "ethnic" is the correct term.

"Foreign food" or "foreign restaurant" seems to be the norm where I live, but maybe I'm uncultured. "Ethnic" wouldn't offend anyone I don't think.

Could be. "Ethnic" sounds to my ear a lot less possibly offensive than "migrant" given the current climate.

I did notice that the Muslim Chinese restaurants have a lot of non-Chinese Muslim customers, maybe because they want halal.

OK, I'll bite. In this particular case I personally would have said "a restaurant of your national cuisine" or even omit the adjective altogether since it's somewhat obvious from the preceding conversation what you mean.

My main qualm with this usage -- aside from being dated -- is that all cuisines are ethnic, but singling out the hypothetical migrant's as such implies that it is particularly ethnic. So in this sense it is a bit othering.

To be clear, I don't write this to call you out for your usage or accuse you -- I'm just answering your good-faith question.

RE your point, I don't agree that it's so obvious -- cooking and running a restaurant are pretty hard regardless of where you are from!

Here ethnic cuisine more or less means regional cuisine, where the region is outside of the speaker's own cultural identity. It goes beyond national, which is very broad. Therefore I think it's a fairly useful descriptor.

For example Oaxacan and TexMex are ethnically Mexican, but seen as regional within their borders by the respective nations. There's deeper indigenous roots there too. Food traditions of the Jewish diaspora can't be said to be Israeli cuisine. Things that start as regionally unique become seen as ethnic over time: I dunno like rocky mountain oysters, fish and chips, buffalo wings, as they become more intertwined with the culture of those people and that culture is exported.

Ethnicity was coined to avoid the racial connotations but in the US, ethnic studies brought it right back. If one wishes to avoid the word here maybe cultural is probably the best substitute but still a bit too narrow. You'll also see Global/International/Continental/Intercontinental as well, much like in music.. but I think that misses the point too.

Too bad. I considered pre-empting this exact response, and I did not, so here we are!

The term "national" doesn't simply mean "having to do with a nation state".

I promise that I do not mean to be condescending with this, but you can verify in Merriam-Webster's entry for "nationality" which is referenced by the entry for "national", or also the Wikipedia article on "national cuisine". The Merriam-Webster entries specifically give examples showing that my usage encompasses the examples you gave.

The terms "ethnicity" and "ethnic" are not problematic per se. There are a few reasons people object to usages such as "ethnic cuisine", one of which I mentioned in the comment you are replying to.

It mostly does, yes. Nation is political. National cuisine and the claim of certain dishes, if official, are driven by government. See gastronationalism.

You won't find Persian national cuisine. Iran however, yes, and it's mostly ethnically Persian. You'll find food traditions of other ethnic groups in Iran as well that aren't Persian. Iranian cuisine encompasses all of that within a political border.

I think you are conflating senses of the word, or rather you are defaulting to a very specific usage. There's the usage "Iranian national cuisine" which as you say is inherently political in nature because we mean "nation" in a civic and territorial sense, subsuming e.g. Persian, Azeri, Kurd cuisines, among others. There may be objections to specific inclusions or exclusions as we are considering Iran as a civic and political entity with borders, as you say

But it's perfectly fine to refer to "Kurdish national cuisine" or Persian national cuisine or Azeri national cuisine even in the absence of any nation state. So I'm using the term in an ethnocultural sense, not in the sense of something sanctioned by a nation state or a political entity. See also black nationalism or Kurdish nationalism -- no state is required here. You have political mobilisation around an ethnocultural designation rather than a government

See gastronationalism. It's not "a very specific usage." Black and Kurdish nationalism are political movements. You're welcome to say Persian national cuisine, but that can be interpreted in a number of ways. I wouldn't advise it.

Anyway. My point is that ethnic cuisine is not easily replaced by another term.

Thai cuisine is remarkably interesting due to Global Thai and both the funding for restaurants as well as the standardization of curry recipes that was led by the government to help spread cultural awareness of the cuisine.

Well, you have to be an esoteric migrant. This technique doesn’t really work for a Chinese or Indians.

The moment you ask yourself that- you are already poisoned. Because walking around on eggshells, makes you hate those who force you to be over considerate in time. Which results in buildup and release of tension.. just be yourself- and be kind intrinsicly..

Much of the Uzbek and Central Asian community is largely located in the Bay, NYC, and DMV. There are around 3 Uzbek restaurants in SF alone.

Theres Sofia (ex-Uzbek) and uzbegim, what’s the third one?

There used to be a third one a couple blocks away from Sofiya/Halal Dastarkhan in Tenderloin, but I think that may have shut down.

There also used to be 2 actual ethnic Uyghur restaurants (not Chinese from Xinjiang) in SF but they shut down as well.

It’s wild how NYC trumps every other city for ethnic food by miles. The number of central Asian places (mostly Uzbek and Georgian) is probably closer to 100.

NYC is just a wonderful place. I lived there for a decade and loved every minute of it. I don’t want to live there anymore because now I have a family and I like having a huge amount of land and living in nature and serenity and all of that but New York City is one of the best places on the planet.

"There's apparently only ~2000 Uzbek-Americans in all of northern IL"

where did you get this number? does that include chicago, because i live in Chicago area ... seems low.

https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/lists/uzbek-population-in...

Figuring some fudge factor too. It could be low - it's hard to find numbers for nationality counts for central Asians broken down by state.

that websites estimates are definitely too low - e.g. there are definitely more than 40 Uzbek people in Chicago... I've been to 3 uzbek restaurants in Chicago proper myself.

Broadly (in another comment I made) I think I've made sense of it. Regardless of the real population, it's probably not just the Uzbek population sustaining these places. That most likely wouldn't be viable.

My wife's restaurant for example targets a nationality that is wayyyy more numerous (not Mexicans; that'd be easy enough), and it's tough for us to stay profitable.

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