The American Grilled Cheese Sandwich Essay (2024) | Hacker News Reader

The American Grilled Cheese Sandwich Essay (2024)

buttondown.com

53 pointsNaOH55 comments

This author is wrong. You may not add onions, avocado, or any of those other things to a grilled cheese sandwich, at least not if you are trying to make a grilled cheese sandwich. Once you start adding veggies or meat, it becomes a melt. There's nothing wrong with a melt! But words mean things, and you can't just call any sandwich you like a grilled cheese just because the bread is toasted and it has melted cheese inside.

We call the entire genre of toasted sandwich a toastie. A grilled cheese would thus be a cheese toastie, the addition of tomato would make it a cheese and tomato toastie, and so on.

As a non-grilled-cheese speaker, I don't intuitively understand why you can't have a grilled cheese and tomato. Words do mean things, but why is "cheese and tomato toastie" an allowable variation while "grilled cheese and tomato" is banned? The difference seems arbitrary and capricious!

Oh. That's easy enough.

It is completely improper to add tomato to a grilled cheese sandwich. It's not that the two things don't fit together; indeed, they do fit together beautifully.

But combining them all into one sandwich is absurd.

And by absurd, I mean something loosely akin to: Ketchup is good. Fries are good. Steak is good. All of these things can fit together very well in one meal. And while it's OK to put ketchup on fries, it's absurd to soil that meal by putting that same ketchup on a steak.

If tomatoes and a grilled cheese sandwich are to be components of the same meal, then that's a wonderful thing indeed. But that is a result which is unilaterally accomplished by including a bowl of tomato soup.

As a fundamental part of the natural order, the inclusion of tomato soup is the only right and pure way by which this combination of flavors may be reached.

(Dipping is encouraged, though.)

I think you're seeing a compound word because it's part of your native dialect, whereas I'm seeing each word independently.

If you think about "grilled", "cheese", and the silent "sandwich" as different words composed together, then it should logically follow that you can use anything you want as a sandwich filling and then grill it.

Radical sandwich anarchy!

Sandwiches can contain anything, just like a taco can. Everyone knows that.

But when a sandwich contains cheese along with other additional internal ingredients, the act of grilling it is metamorphosical. In this irreversible process, it ceases to be a sandwich and becomes a melt.

So while a tomato and cheese sandwich can be an amazing and delicious thing, a grilled tomato and cheese sandwich is impossible.

To say that it is any other way would be like saying that a caterpillar and a butterfly are the same thing.

I disagree, or rather I don't care if I'm wrong but there are likely millions on my side. I'm 49 years old, grew up eating grilled cheese (American cheese on Pepperidge Farms white bread), often with sliced onion or tomato, and mustard. I had never even heard of a melt until I was probably 35, and even so, I still call a doctored up grilled cheese sandwich a grilled cheese sandwich. It ceases to be grilled cheese only if meat is added.

Earlier today, I made a grilled cheese sandwich for myself.

I started by getting a shitty frozen burrito out of the freezer. I then placed a slice of cheese on top of it and put it into the toaster oven for exactly 27 minutes.

After that, I ate this grilled cheese sandwich.

I would subscribe to your recipe blog.

This is what I came back for: any post on the Internet about simple food anyone can make will have at least one thread derailing it to explain The One True Way. Put it in the drawer with the anti-pineapple pizza people and the Chicago hot dog truthers. And then ask how people prefer their scrambled eggs. That makes Israel/ Palestine look like a pre-season friendly.

The most important lesson about Grilled Cheese that I have learned is that you can buy a mix of expensive cheese, get a nice fresh loaf of sourdough bread, high quality grass fed butter. You can really make an exquisite, amazing, grilled cheese that would cost $25 at a mediocre restaurant with a side of fries. However, a 4 year old will prefer one made out of kraft singles on white.

As a near-fifty year old who has been making sourdough for 6 years, makes homemade mayo with a grated garlic clove and freshly squeezed lemons every couple weeks, and keeps a stash of fine cheeses readily available for all occasions - I'm with the 4 year old. White bread, 2 slices of american, butter - it's hard to beat the sheer comfort, texture, flavor, gooeyness, and simplicity of the classic.

There is a middle ground that isn't so pretentious.

I still need it to have bacon, parm, and a side of tomato soup. I toast it in a pan to avoid crumbs. Everything else beyond that point truly is another sandwich.

My wife recently reminded me of something I made for her while she was sick last winter - Grilled cheese on sourdough (with roasted garlic mixed into the cheese) toasted to a crisp and cut into croutons for a home-made tomato soup.

Quite literally the most authentic version. Not my preference but it’s the canonical form.

Why are you bothering with all that effort if you prefer the quick easy store-bought thing?

They bother with that effort when eating other things, but they keep it simple and go kraft-and-white-bread when making a grilled cheese. They're essentially saying, "While I love putting a lot of effort into cooking most things, when it comes to a grilled cheese, simple and cheap wins out."

They are feeding butter grass, they are way past the point of no return

I think some things taste a lot better when you are so conscious about every ingredient and preparation. For sourdough and cheese I always prefer the good ones, what can I say.

P.S. Obviously cows are being fed

> high quality grass fed butter

I have found that the best Grilled Cheese is a hybrid.

Get the nice bread. Get the nice cheese.

But also add some kraft singles to the mix. The sodium citrate will help the melt on not only the single itself, but your nice cheese as well. You'll get the flavors of the good cheese with the melt of the cheap junk. Best of both worlds.

Finally. A true connoisseur.

4 year olds eat mud and bogeys. Who cares what they like?

Parents of four year-olds.

Is getting you children to eat more toasted cheese a common problem?

I refuse to answer on the grounds I think you have a dog in this hunt.

Instead of butter I prefer to use Mayonnaise as the fat spread on the bread to cook in the pan. It does a fantastic job.

It's convenient and makes a good colour, but I've always found it loses to butter in terms of flavour. Maybe a mix of the two would work well (like they put on banh mi, though I think that's often mayo+margarine)

I haven't tried actual mayo, but I did once try Miracle Whip (which is my preferred condiment in place of mayo). I would strongly advise avoiding that - the grilled cheese made with Miracle Whip was truly nasty. Proper mayo must be different in a way that makes it more effective in this task.

Miracle Whip is similar to Salad Cream in the UK, which is more water than oil. It's oil/fat you want, not water.

Real mayo is an emulsion of eggs and oil.

Miracle Whip? What's the sugar content on that label and the other ingredients. Is this even sold as food like thing or is it more of a candy condiment like 'chocolate sauce'?

Yes, Miracle Whip. Some folks use in place of mayonnaise for things like sandwiches and salads. The consistency is similar-ish to mayo, and it tends to taste more tart than store-bought mayo does (although mayo varies a great deal in this way).

It is nothing like chocolate sauce; it is definitely not a confection.

The first ingredient of Miracle Whip is water. But it does have eggs, and oil. And sugar. And other stuff.

It originated during the Great Depression; when people were broke as fuck and affording food was a challenge, Miracle Whip was a cheaper way to kinda-sorta get some of the same things done that mayonnaise would otherwise do.

(But things do change: These days, Miracle Whip tends to be more expensive than mayo.)

this is a good choice because it has less water content than solid butter and promotes better browning. Other options would be to use olive oil, tallow or ghee

Reminds me of the exact opposite opinion (a meltdown one might even say, as mentioned in the top comment) someone on r/grilledcheese:

> You people make me sick.

> A grilled cheese consists of only these following items. Cheese. Bread with spread (usually butter). This entire subreddit consist of "melts". Almost every "grilled cheese" sandwich i see on here has other items added to it. The fact that this subreddit is called "grilledcheese" is nothing short of utter blasphemy.

> Let me start out by saying I have nothing against melts, I just hate their association with sandwiches that are not grilled cheeses. Adding cheese to your tuna sandwich? It's called a Tuna melt. Totally different. Want to add bacon and some pretentious bread crumbs with spinach? I don't know what the hell you'd call that but it's not a grilled cheese.

> I would be more than willing to wager I've eaten more grilled cheeses in my 21 years than any of you had in your entire lives. I have one almost everyday and sometimes more than just one sandwich. Want to personalize your grilled cheese? Use a mix of different cheeses or use sourdough or french bread. But if you want to add some pulled pork and take a picture of it, make your own subreddit entitled "melts" because that is not a fucking grilled cheese.

> I'm not a religious man nor am I anything close to a culinary expert. But as a bland white mid-western male I am honestly the most passionate person when it comes to grilled cheese and mac & cheese. All of you foodies stay the hell away from our grilled cheeses and stop associating your sandwich melts with them. Yet again, it is utter blasphemy and it rocks me to the core of my pale being.

> Shit, I stopped lurking after 3 years and made this account for the sole purpose of posting this. I've seen post after post of peoples "grilled cheeses" all over reddit and it's been driving me insane. The moment I saw this subreddit this morning I finally snapped. Hell, I may even start my own subreddit just because I know this one exists now.

> You god damn heretics. Respect the grilled cheese and stop changing it into whatever you like and love it for it what it is. Or make your damn melt sandwich and call it for what it is. A melt.

https://www.reddit.com/r/grilledcheese/comments/2or1p3/you_p...

That post salvaged the subreddit; before, it had lost its focus. When I came back to give it another try, that post had become a meme and a rallying cry, and the sub had a lot of legitimately interesting thoughts and discussion.

Always a trip reflecting on this hyperbolic and profanity-laden style of comment from the old internet. Cringy by today’s standards.

Funny that a post from 2015 is considered old Internet.

I have memes from like 2004 that I remember saving from floppy -> CD-R -> DVDR -> external hdd -> cloud.

God, the young are so cringy.

no, today's hollowed out husk of internet is what is cringy and self conscious, as well as namby-pamby. the attitudes of those who created the internet cannot be called cringy.

The best part of old internet culture is that the people who were there don't really give a damn about the current culture of censoring random perfectly words because of social media.

You can curse on the internet, lots of us don't believe that God will smite us if we do.

> This is not a column where I will carp and complain—about air-fryer grilled cheeses, or fancy gourmet grilled cheeses, or Kraft-single grilled cheeses, or the proper application of butter, or the appropriate pan, or the degree and nature of the condiments. To me, each grilled cheese is enough, and more than enough. In this world so full of slaughter and fire, where doubt and monstrosity abound, this much is clear to me: the grilled cheese is a small and perfect thing.

Amen.

I love me a grilled cheese sandwich and I'm not picky about it, but if you want to take the time to put in the extra effort, the following recipe is the best grilled cheese you'll ever make:

https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1020107-french-onion-gri...

If you have some fresh tomatoes on hand, this is almost as tasty and a lot easier (and not technically grilled cheese, since no grilling is involved, nor a sandwich unless you want to call it open faced):

https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1024469-tomato-cheddar-t...

I never understood the appeal of grilled cheese and thought it's mostly because every time I see it it's made with toast bread (???) or brioche (hard to get a decent brioche here in Poland) but I can see a variation made with what I would call bread.

Will give it a go.

> I never understood the appeal of grilled cheese

What's so hard to understand? It's cheese. It's melted. It's breaded. Why are cheese sticks so popular? They're cheese. They're melted. They're breaded. Why are quesadillas so popular? They're cheese. They're melted. They're breaded.

I don't think cheese sticks or quesadillas are all that popular in Poland.

I've never had a cheese stick or seen one in a supermarket (UK). I assume from your description it's like a fish finger but filled with cheese.

That sounds like a Poland problem not a my problem to bend a phrase. However, you have cheese in Poland? You can melt cheese in Poland? You have breading in Poland? Why have you NOT made a breaded melty cheesy thingy yet? Like seriously, go become the first person in Poland to do this and become a national hero.

I don't do Polish at all, but: The pictures I see of chleb tostowy pszenny do look right. (We just call that "bread" in the US. It's inexpensive, and we tend to have some in every kitchen. Ours is probably much sweeter but that doesn't matter.)

With that bread: Make a plain cheese sandwich with whatever melty cheese you enjoy. Then put butter on the outside (on both sides of the sandwich) using whatever butter you like.

Put that buttered cheese sandwich in a frying pan (patelnia uniwersalna) at ~medium heat.

Do not walk away from it. Flip it over every now and then to cook it evenly and see how it is doing.

When the cheese gets all melted and goopy at about the same time that the bread changes color and becomes toasted, then you did it right. Cut it in half and eat it.

If you didn't do it right, then that's fine too. Cut it in half and eat it anyway.

(Repeat regularly until perfection is reached. You'll know it when you find it.)

Take a bread that makes a good toast (to you).

Take a cheese that is soft, mellow (unless you really love pungent) and melts well under heat.

Combine such that the bread ends up perfectly toasted and the cheese in the middle melted at the same time.

I sometimes wonder if a sufficiently buttered initial toast side would make for a good inner face for the cheese to go against such that the sandwich might hold up for that much longer.

PREVENT the sandwich from sitting face down on any surface and eat while still quite warm. When I still at these frequently I'd either do it myself or ask for the sandwich to be plated such that the exposed surface area was maximized to allow the steam to escape and prevent soggy sandwiches.

I always cut diagonal and lean the halves against each other, balanced on edge, with the diagonal facing up. No soggy side, center cools faster, and contents don’t leak as much before picking up.

Chałka will work just fine if you remove excess crumble. Lidl sells “butter” buns/rolls and those could work too. Get yourself two thick slices of decent cheese and some cheap processed kraft cheese slices. Put one slice of processed cheese between two slices of good cheese. Fry the whole sandwich in a little bit of butter until golden brown but not burned on both sides. Goes well with pickles, sour kraut, mayonnaise, ketchup, hot sauce etc.

Not sure what you mean by toast bread, but you can't beat a good grilled cheese sandwich. My wife just makes them out of a cheap brioche bread with cheddar and American cheese. They're great when dipped in a tomato soup.

The brioche bread: https://www.walmart.com/ip/ART-BRI-BKY-BRD-20OZ/19883411944

My secret is paprika powder. It changes the whole flavor profile. A fair amount is needed, and it needs to be pretty fresh powder, not something that's sat in the cupboard for two years.

Alton Brown's technique [1] of using two skillets is also great if (like me) you don't have a panini press. You put the sandwich in one skillet, heated, then put the bottom of the second skillet on top.

[1] https://altonbrown.com/recipes/perfect-grilled-cheese/

My secret ingredient comes from my grandmother, and is always controversial and polarizing when I mention it:

Raisins.

It seems like something that should not work, but it does work.

My dad used to make something similar to that second link when we were kids. A slice of bread, some mayo, tomato slices, salt and pepper, top with American cheese. Pop it in the oven on a cookie sheet until the bread is toasty and cheese is melted. It's quite good - but as you said, one has to have fresh tomatoes. A grocery store tomato will not cut it if you're making those!

Ok, I am about to dig in, but a person willing to write about food most anyone can cook and give me Branaugh's Henry V is an instant read.

This always comes to mind whenever [grilled] cheese sandwiches do:

> I was reminded of a conversation I had with an American military intelligence officer who was having a supper of Jack Daniel's and Coca-Cola at a Kigali bar.

> "I hear you're interested in genocide," the American said. "Do you know what genocide is?"

> I asked him to tell me.

> "A cheese sandwich," he said. "Write it down. Genocide is a cheese sandwich."

> I asked him how he figured that.

> "What does anyone care about a cheese sandwich?" he said. "Genocide, genocide, genocide. Cheese sandwich, cheese sandwich, cheese sandwich. Who gives a shit? Crimes against humanity. Where's humanity? Who's humanity? You? Me? Did you see a crime committed against you? Hey, just a million Rwandans. Did you ever hear about the Genocide Convention?"

> I said I had.

> "That convention," the American at the bar said, "makes a nice wrapping for a cheese sandwich."

From "We Wish to Inform You that Tomorrow We Will Be Killed with Our Families: Stories from Rwanda" by Philip Gourevitch.

Rye bread, cheddar, and a 50/50 mix of butter and bacon grease in the pan.

I feel obligated to note the grilled-cheese-adjacent brie and butter sandwich of Twin Peaks notoriety.

Grilled cheeses should be outlawed.

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