Hamburg's Stadtpark: A Park Built to Be Used | Hacker News Reader

Hamburg's Stadtpark: A Park Built to Be Used

alsterrunde.com

171 pointsmertbio60 comments

I am from Hamburg and I live about 6 minutes from the Stadtpark by foot. I walk my dog there pretty much every day and I am very grateful to live so close by. I spent two years living in Tokyo and although Tokyo also has its fair share of parks I feel the Stadtpark kind of outshines all of them. I like the authors focus on usability of the park. It really has so much to offer and it’s well maintained without looking sterile. They just repaved some of the sections with compacted gravel which feels very pleasant to walk on for me. I will say that on sunny weekends in summer there are sufficiently many careless people that litter and just throw their barbecue consumables wherever or place them next to the already overflowing trash bins instead of taking their trash with them, which is a little sad to see. But credits to the Müllabfuhr and park care takers for doing a really good job at cleaning it up afterwards. If you visit Hamburg I absolutely recommend going for an extended stroll there!

Sounds really nice, I live 1.5 hours from Hamburg and might just visit the Stadtpark for the first time in my life due to this post. Soonish the concert season begins again as well so Ill be in Hamburg more often from there on out anyway.

Moin!

As someone living in Stockholm I find this very interesting. A football field, or a rose garden are very good public infrastructure, and I will never argue against them. But I love to go around Stockholm forests. Yes, these are not parks but forests with wildlife, hiking paths, and nature all around. That connection with nature cannot be replaced with any kind of facilities.

> A lake in the middle of a big city that you can simply get into is not a normal thing.

Stockholm is a big city (for European standards) in the middle of a lake. So, this is probably very difficult to emulate for other cities. Sadly around Sweden, trees that have been harvested for wood are replaced with low quality forest that do not meet biodiversity targets.

> I also feel like during the winter, even though the park looks amazing under snow or fog, there are not many things to do.

Parks are amazing and we should have more in our cities. I see people hiking and running in the forest all year round. Forests and nature are better than parks to bring a pace of mind and mindfulness that cannot be replaced by anything else. And they usually are free, so everybody can enjoy them independently of their economic situation. But each steps forward is a welcome step. And parks are also needed.

There are several large parks that resemble forests and are barely touched by human activity in Moscow as well. Can't say I liked walking in them very much when I was still living there, but I support the idea, it's good that they exist

> That connection with nature cannot be replaced with any kind of facilities.

100% this, I moved out of city (Geneva, Switzerland), even though it had 100km long crystal clear lake, plus pretty awesome mountain for climbing/hiking/paragliding very close with 600m vertical cliffs.

True nature ain't parks, however well curated. I live next to cca 1x1.5km wild forest, even scientific reserve, and on frequent walks there the feeling and energy recharge effect is real, very pleasant and (for me) was almost non-present in otherwise beautiful Geneva parks.

We are creatures of nature and still connected to it deeply, everybody I know feels better after even 1h walk in such forest.

It's in the name: stadtpark, city park.

In defense of Berlin's Tiergarten, it was originally a hunting preserve for deer (and Hasenheide was for rabbits), so it's big and intimidating. But there are still facilities in it that serve the neighboring residents. And throughout Berlin there are multiple volksparks, people's parks, which have everything the author mentions.

In most cities, parks evolve to serve the residents.

Berlin parks are difficult to beat! I lived half a decade at 2min from Treptower Park, my morning walk to the office, through the Soviet memorial, was so awesome. I’m now in Hamburg and while we have some nice parks I do miss the ones from Berlin

Tiergarten is surrounded by government buildings, embassies, malls, big wide roads and office skyscrapers. None are "living" spaces.

I love Tiergarten, but I see the surrounding being overrun by these as why it is so underrated/unknown. Otherwise an amazing place to cycle through, chill on the grass with friends or grab a beer in Café am Neuen See.

You're right. It's reflective of the neighborhood itself.

"everything the author mentions" I wouldn't say this is totally accurate. There are no swimmable lakes in the central part of the city for example. Certainly there are parks that have volleyball, running tracks, kids parks and grilling areas, which is great. But it sounds like the Hamburg one goes above and beyond.

I don't remember can you swim in Lietzensee but you definitely can in Weissensee and I consider both to be quite central still.

But you are correct, there's not enough swimmable lakes in Berlin and when the weather is nice you better drive somewhere in Brandenburg if you don't want to be stuck in a fully packed pond with 1000 others.

I just took a bicycle ride on purpose-built paths across Vienna from one of its western most districts out to the Danube Island, and along the way I passed multiple parks, in full use by the residents of the city, escaping the sweltering heat ... from the small gardens around the Ring, to Stadtpark, and out into the Prater reserve .. I even saw folks riding their horses in a lake of the Prater reserve, something I haven't seen in a city in a while.

Last weekend there was a free concert (PopFest) put on for all to enjoy.

It struck me, as I was riding through one of the worlds' most livable cities, that the careful planning for all of these locations was done a hundred or more years ago .. and that the love of the city's planners for the city's population is clearly evident. Whether its the open fountains, fresh water supplies, well maintained and curated lawns and gardens, easy and accessible public transportation, or the incredible asset to city-dwellers sanity that is the Danube Island, its very clear that this is a city which cares about its people.

And I've seen it all over Europe, too.

In the USA, where I lived for 15 years before this - we had the benefit of enduring hourly commutes, twice a day, on elevated platforms above the concrete jungle, and dare you ever left that commute to explore the neighborhoods usually ignored, there is not much public space to be had that wasn't occupied by misery.

Its a stark contrast in care on the part of the governments involved. I'll take Vienna's park-loving social system over that of LA or SF, any day.

This was such a nice read about a park I had never heard of. Thank you for writing it (and for actually writing it yourself instead of vibing it).

And for putting the inevitable subscribe-for-more form inline at the end of the article, rather than in a popup.

Hamburg is one of the greenest cities in the world (summertime). Not too far from the Stadtpark you'll find the Olsdorfer Friedhof, which is the largest "park cemetery" in Europe. If the Stadtpark is still too busy for you, despite it actually never is really, the cemetery is even quieter to find some rest and a refreshing walk. I know it sounds strange, but I mean it. :-)

I used to live just about across the road from a large cemetery in the middle of Chicago. It was one of the quietest places around to take a walk and be surrounded by trees.

Cemeteries are great places for quiet walks.

> Hamburg is one of the greenest cities in the world (summertime).

It really puts many of the cities I consider very green (like Stockholm) to shame. Mild climate and high humidity, and boom, you have a jungle.

This is not a coincidence: City Planner Fritz Schumacher formulated the "Featherplan" [0], which outlay how the city would grow outwards while always maintaining common access to greenery, parks etc.

As a result, many quarters of Hamburg not just have direct access to a park, but to a park which directly connects them to the city center, thus it is possible to enter your local park and cycle/walk/jog straight into the city center without ever (really) leaving the greenery.

[0] https://www.hamburg.de/resource/image/280814/landscape_ratio...

In terms of cemeteries, I recommend the Waldfriedhof in Munich. One of the largest in Germany (170 Hektar/420 acres). The wilder forest parts of it have snakes and other less common wildlife.

It is truly a great city to live in. I have only visited it a few times, I wish I could live there.

Moving from Manchester to Hamburg the difference in greenery is already pretty astounding, but Stadtpark is really the jewel. Wonderfully maintained, easy transport access and close enough to the centre that you can walk it without the dog getting exhausted, a few spots to get a beer or a schorle when needed. One of the highlights of the city.

Beautiful park indeed, though i wish it was closer to the city center (like Planten un Blomen). Also, the planetarium is fantastic, I went last year for a live modular-synth event, it was such a dream

Hamburg has a lot going for it, it's just a shame the locals are so cold, unfriendly and boring.

Being from Hamburg I've heard that a lot. Too often, really, to not have an ounce of truth to it. OTOH there are barely inhabitants of the town who have any deeper roots there (ie. their grandparents grew up there), so I'd argue that this is not an original cultural quality. "Locals" is a really broad term here, because actual Locals are either gentrified away a long time or if they were able to weather the gentrification, they usually ended up in the posh islets, to which I'd wager you didn't have much contact with.

That's true actually, I know an echte Hamburgerin (3 generations both sides) and she's nice, as are her family. The "locals" I just meant the German inhabitants of the city, many of whom of course did not grow up there or are from there or have strong roots in the city.

Like I said, it's a pity, but for a city that claims to be Germany's "gateway to the world", its people are awfully parochial, small-minded, and terribly lacking in curiosity.

> small-minded

The mother of Karl Lagerfeld once told him that, yes, Hamburg is the „gateway to the world“ but you have to go through it.

She meant, being willing to exit through it.

One could argue, that this entails a selection bias in who comes and stays and who actually goes. And over time you got a population which prides itself to be something others have been/are.

That's a great quote, thanks for sharing it with me.

Looks like a nice park! Was a bit odd of a read to me because the vast majority of the parks in my part the US are like this (sports fields, playgrounds, lakes, open green space, bike paths, grills, pavilions, etc), didn't realize I had taken that for granted.

I think it varies. "Park" can mean anything from basically wild forest to maintained green space and it may or may not include ammenities such as you listed.

Sure. "State" and "National" parks mean something different than most city or county parks, which tend to be more amenity focused.

States also have many wilderness areas, preserves, recreation area, forests, etc. both federal and state varieties]

https://www.doi.gov/blog/americas-public-lands-explained

One of my favorite parks and much lesser knows is Westpark in Munich. Similarly built around usage and still unique since it was originally built for a national garden exhibition it features a rich set of small little areas from around the world, a Japanese party, a Chinese part, French areas, English areas. It has outdoor theaters, playgrounds, a lake, a communial area and much more . It’s worth a visit when you are in Munich

Thanks for sharing!

I wanted to say the same thing, Westpark is a gem, loved living next to it and miss it a lot. One of my favorite things there is the Kino Mond un Sterne, during summer they play movies in this open air amphitheatre surrounded by trees and with a small lake with a fountain on the other side.

Yea, both Westpark itself and the open-air cinema inside the park are stellar.

It surprises me that no-one has mentioned Munich's premier city park though: the English Garden (Englischer Garten): https://maps.app.goo.gl/ug5fg8KUBHPWvRPD7.

It is, frankly, amazing. I've never seen infrastructure of this kind so close to the people, so sprawling and so well kept. People swim in side arms of the Isar too, many floating (see pictures near the start at https://maps.app.goo.gl/krgaM2tTKdzCzW398, where people surf on the mini-river).

Of the places I've been, Munich is by far the best one in this area (and many others) that I know.

Refreshing read, handcrafted

A couple of years back I took a horse and carriage ride around the Lüneburger Heide, a nature preserve just south of Hamburg. They really do a very good job of this sort of thing all over the region. Which I very much appreciate, because on balance a lot of this region of Germany feels like visiting midwestern suburbs...

I got the same sense at Schloss Schönbrunn in Vienna. Not so much the practical amenities but that it's still obvious that it was made for royalty going for strolls or looking for secluded shade areas. It's just a genuinely nice space & was more than a little jealous of the joggers that clearly use it for their daily run

I don't disagree but the great thing about Vienna is that, while Schlosspark Schönbrunn is amazing and puts most other city parks into shame, it's not at the top of nice parks in Vienna - there's also Prater, Wienerberg and especially Donauinsel.

Yes, Schlosspark is quite nice for jogging or walking. There are also two sandboxes for kids. However, you're not supposed to walk on most of the grass, so it's indeed mostly a park to look at, but not a park to be used.

Parc Lafontaine in Montreal is really great too. It has:

- a pond (ice-skating in the winter)

- outdoors theatre

- indoor theatre

- Petanque court

- Training bikepark for kids

- Playgrounds

- Tennis, Soccer, baseball

- So much trees and picnic spots, on the ground and tables

- A little non-profit restaurant

And just generally a good vibe. We really have a great park culture in the city, that's not even our best one. Other parks have regular circus and larping gatherings, tamtams and other hippy shit.

…and so many people. There’s not enough green space in Montreal.

We're living in Hesse and every time we make the long trip to go to Hamburg the Stadtpark is where we spend most of our time. You'll think I'm exaggerating but honestly, we're thinking of moving to Hamburg and the Stadtpark is the biggest reason.

Hamburg is a wonderful city, there's also that :)

Also living in Hamburg right now, AMA if you want to

For a family of three (2 adults, both working full time + a 3 year-old), are there places to live that doesn't require us to sell our kidneys to pay rent and are reasonable in terms of commute + services?

districts are diverse in hamburg, its a huge city-state. I live in the south, in harburg, which has a historically bad reputation but a lot of subdistricts here are in fact pretty nice, and commute to the centre via train is like 20 minutes. some days per years its problematic though, when somthing breaks the train/sbahn lines a lot of people also switch to car and then you just sit in traffic. it just boils down to cross the river which most of the year just works fine with like every 5 minutes somthing drives. harburg itself has been not a district but a distinct city in itself historically, so all "services" upto university) is there too naturally, reduing the need to cross the river to begin with.

Yeah thanks for the response! We actually didn't consider Harburg exactly because of the bad reputation, but thanks to your comment we'll have another look. Cheers!

> What stayed with me was not the swimming. It was that none of it looked planned. She was not spending her afternoon at the lake, she was just going through her day, and the lake happened to be part of it.

Fascinating phenomenon, but this sentence caused me to stop reading and close the tab.

"Slop", I thought.

Now I think about it, I'm not even sure I can put my finger on what about that sentence came across as AI slop.

It's the "it's not X. It's Y" pattern isn't it?

Although the verb "stayed with me" seems a little sloppy to me too.

Hmm, you might be right about that paragraph. I am very sensitive to LLM smells, but I missed this one, probably because the rest of the essay seems handwritten.

Of course, one can never be sure. Many writers are picking up on this style, too, so it could have organic origins.

Of course it has organic origins: where else could the LLM have learned it?

I feel like this is one of the most damaging parts of the slop problem. Occasionally the slopisms fit into real writing. Sometimes people do just write like this, and we are losing a sense of reality because we keep being tripped up by this nagging little voice

She was not doing x, she was doing y, and surprising insight z.

It’s borderline, could just as well be just human text.

I frowned over the "none of it looked planned" - the whole description sounds as if that swim was exactly that: planned from the beginning.

Socialists claim rare victory not in France.

In ten years of posting, you have amassed... 0 karma.

The community has shown you what it thinks of you. Take the message.

Ten years of shitposting without winding up deeply negative is actually a hell of an accomplishment.

Hey people - we're all in this shitacane together. Laugh a little. If what I'm saying isn't funny to you, ignore because you don't get it.

Laugh a little. Love you too!

That's a very healthy attitude. I love you too, in a general sense. But low-effort comments are not a good way to show that love.

Why is this park a victory for socialism? Why is socialism victorious in France, why not elsewhere? Do you have insight to share, that people might not have considered?

Reply on news.ycombinator.com