Lidl Introduces the European Payment Method Wero in Germany | Hacker News Reader

Lidl Introduces the European Payment Method Wero in Germany

unternehmen.lidl.de

53 pointsdoener22 comments

But your bank needs to be in Germany, Belgium, France, or "all of Europe". When you select the latter, my Dutch bank isn't shown

I also have a shared account in Germany, but paying with that doesn't work either. It shows an info page about what Wero is supposed to be, not a payment page. The page says I need to make a Google account and buy a compatible phone to download their software and try again

This is advertised as a replacement for iDeal, a Dutch system created by a collaboration of banks in 2005. It worked very simple on any device: (1) click pay, (2) select your bank, (3) you're redirected to your bank's website and use your normal online banking method to authenticate the transaction (chip+pin with an authenticator, the mobile app, whatever your bank offers), (4) the website redirects you back to the merchant

Wero seems to be like a payment request, except it hides the target IBAN and requires an app and only allows certain banks from a few countries (not EU-wide). What a leap forward from iDeal that just always worked in any browser and bank when the payment provider supports it

Wero is a European wide payment system. In the Netherlands it replaces iDeal, which has been the (almost) universal payment method for webshops in the Netherlands. In not all European countries such payment systems are used as widespread as in the Netherlands. Wero is actually a payment broker as it usually connects with the payment system (often a banking app) of your choice.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48648574 (comment with Wero details)

> Wero is actually a payment broker as it usually connects with the payment system (often a banking app) of your choice.

Except you don't have a choice. It's not like iDeal where you can just use your bank's regular login method to pay; this requires making a big tech account to download some app where maybe it then works if it likes your device. IDeal always worked in a browser. Why change a running system with a less-compatible one?

I feel the same but I'm starting to think that EPI is right to not care.

Nobody from any tech media seems to be pointing out the Google/Apple smartphone dependency, let alone ask anyone at EPI about it. If they do, at least they're not writing about the results.

The only article I know of that ever asked the question is actually from the press of the German government: https://www.das-parlament.de/wirtschaft/finanzen/wir-bauen-m...

"What about smartphones that run on free and open-source software instead of the commercial operating systems used by the iPhone or Google?

Tanja Müller-Ziegler: This market is still very much a niche one. There are still too few providers, which is why it’s hardly worth offering banking apps for these devices."

Other than that I have seen ZERO pressure on this point from the media.

Obviously I do think EPI should intrinsically care, but I also am starting to see more and more that from their point of view literally nobody cares, so why should they?

> It's not like iDeal where you can just use your bank's regular login method to pay; this requires making a big tech account to download some app where maybe it then works if it likes your device.

in Belgium wero doesn't need any "big tech account" or whatever that means. it's natively build into banking apps , eg: https://www.kbc.be/retail/en/products/payments/self-banking/... https://www.bnpparibasfortis.be/en/public/individuals/daily-... etc

and since BNP is french, most likely for France peeps same (i)deal

Since the switch to Wero, I've noticed that I need to do an extra, seemingly pointless click. it's not iDeal!

Intentional or not, this move reduces the influence of US owned payment networks MasterCard & Visa.

But this system is probably tied to Google and Apple's "device attestation." Don't worry, it's in the name of security!

It's better to move step by step instead of trying to solve all problems at once.

Most important things by far is that it's easy to use for the common use case of a regular android or iPhone user.

The task at hand is replacing MasterCard and Visa, not to decouple from all US companies at once.

>But this system is probably tied to Google and Apple's "device attestation."

any banking app for the last 20 years has basically been available only on google and apple devices, (none jailbroken, none rooted) to do proper attestation. So how this different...

Exchanged a US proprietary platform (Visa/Mastercard) for another US proprietary platform (Android/iOS).

I don't understand the point, why you need special payment system when you have instant SEPA bank transfers with QR code with any bank? Slovakia made this mandatory recently, every shop must offer QR code payment, the don't have to provide card payment, but they must provide cashless QR code payment, pretty good idea, you can keep using your bank and EU doesn't need to rely on US card companies and there is no need for some 3rd party like Wero at all to come between your bank and shop bank, you send it directly from your account to shop account without middleman.

Can't wait for digital Euro, that will be a game changer. Offline transactions via NFC will leave no traceable record. The anonymity of cash with the convenience of contactless payments.

If Wero is executed well, I'll use it for sure in the meantime.

> Offline transactions via NFC will leave no traceable record. The anonymity of cash with the convenience of contactless payments

Did you make this up or is there some official document promising that?

It honestly sounds like too good to be true.

https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/timeline/profuse... - it's one of the options "beyond the baseline".

https://www.cnil.fr/en/confidentiality-digital-euro-where-ar... - talks about the offline mode "favoured by many stakeholders".

>will leave no traceable record. The anonymity of cash with the convenience of contactless payments

That will never be allowed to happen. There is a reason monero xmr which already offers more anonymity and privacy than cash, is being criminalized and suppressed in the EU.

I see it happening with a transaction limit.

Obviously transferring millions with a tap brings its own risk.

Next steps: we need to make GrapheneOS our sovereign European mobile operating system and start making our own phones too.

Open bootloader should be required by law.

Pretty insane that we had both Ericsson and Nokia making really good phones and then getting left in the dust. As for GrapheneOS it doesn't sit well with the desire for total digital oversight from EU, digital ID's, tracking and invasive things like on-device scanning, unfortunately.

This appears to be only for their online shop, not for their retail locations.

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