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Comment by gruez | Hacker News Reader

>Not before connecting it to the internet, even Pixels will go through hundreds of megabytes of data before allowing you to unlock them (see 0).

What's the problem here? Are you roaming all the time and that imposes a unreasonable cost on you? You want to stay totally off the grid and using VPN/tor isn't enough?

>Also, will Google let me browse the web with "my own OS" without their proprietary services installed on it? (see 1)

Having control of something isn't the same as third party services granting you access. Many online games only supports windows with secureboot and TPM enabled, but that would be a silly excuse to say that you don't really "own" your PC.

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>What's the problem here? Are you roaming all the time and that imposes a unreasonable cost on you? You want to stay totally off the grid and using VPN/tor isn't enough?

It depends on a remote endpoint that can go down at any point, and depends on the company's policies present and future. It is functionally asking for permission to another party to unlock it, and that would not fall under the umbrella of ownership through being able to install "my own OS" on it, at least for me. And a simple OTA update is all it takes to add multiple verification steps to it, such as providing your ID/using your verified Google account, or just take it out.

Practically speaking none of what you brought up are actually issues because once the phone connects to the internet once, it's unlocked forever, including after relocks/flashing. It's like saying you don't "own" the stuff you bought on bandcamp, because there's a split second between when you bought the song and when you could download it, therefore "It depends on a remote endpoint that can go down at any point, and depends on the company's policies present and future" and "It is functionally asking for permission to another party".

I don't think the bandcamp analogy applies. I may purchase a device with the intent of eventually unlocking the bootloader, but not doing so immediately for whatever reason, such as it still being supported by official updates, or the nth feature not being yet removed. Then the possibility of the option being taken away before you've exercised it remains.

1. It's unclear whether the online check is done when you tap the oem unlocking option, or it's done asynchronously in the background. If it's the latter, then it doesn't really matter because it'll get unlocked anyways.

2. There's no real disadvantage to leaving your bootloader in "locked (unlockable)"[1] state, because you can continue using stock rom and avb is enforced, but you can unlock it at any point using fastboot.

3. The Bandcamp analogy still applies because it offers streaming too (ie. web player), which means you could be happily streaming (ie. not downloading) and then one day they shut down, denying you access to all your music.

[1] https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rh6JxG0xE2k/maxresdefault.jpg

> Having control of something isn't the same as third party services granting you access. Many online games only supports windows with secureboot and TPM enabled, but that would be a silly excuse to say that you don't really "own" your PC.

Your example is about one developer's decision, which is not really what we're talking about. The damage goes way up when you start talking about an arbitrary number of applications. A more apt analogy is, what if you couldn't install any applications except through the Windows Store? We're talking about restrictions laid down by the OS developer and for iding all applications outside of their crappy walled garden, which is very different. Also, you don't actually think Google is going to stop there do you? They will certainly turn it off one day of they think they can get away with it, because it is in their financial self-interests to do so.

>Your example is about one developer's decision, which is not really what we're talking about.

Is it? Many games outsource their anticheat to a third party developer, similar to how many apps outsource their app security to play integrity.

>The damage goes way up when you start talking about an arbitrary number of applications. A more apt analogy is, what if you couldn't install any applications except through the Windows Store?

What about (nearly) all the games that only support windows, and worse yet, are exclusives on one distribution platform? Yes, there's wine/proton and cracks, but that's a "solution" in the same way that using a modded apk to get past the play integrity requirements is a "solution".

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