For most US drivers, EVs offer emissions benefits and cost savings
news.mit.edu
news.mit.edu
I'm inclined to think the number is closer to the higher end, at least in the US. There's still a lot of areas where the charging infrastructure is awful, and if you live in an apartment or are traveling, that's an important consideration. Another is the insurance premium cost, due to the expense of replacing batteries.
I imagine these issues will continue to be less challenging for people over time, as more second hand batteries, recycling and infrastructure continues to expand. Even at current gas prices, though, it didn't make financial sense for my family when we traded in a car two months back.
There is a lot of crap going around on Facebook that takes a highly qualified study, they take a fact like “90% of Tesla owners who get rid of their Tesla after one year go back to gasoline cars.” And they twist into “90% of EV owners go back to gasoline cars”. And you know, it’s Facebook, people read the facts that reinforce their biases, they aren’t actually looking for useful high quality information.
Once things get crowded and you have to wait in line to get your vehicle charged, it becomes a bit annoying.
The best thing is, at least here, there are so many "small" charging spots. If you take them into account when traveling to places (even the grocery store, or the museum, or near whatever relative or friend you are visiting), you can just charge cheaply there. This is the hardest habit for me to break: no, i don't need to visit a "gas station" to fill up, just charge wherever you can find a charger, and it doesnt have to be 100%. Even a short stop on a slower charging spot helps a lot.
Seriously?
EVs have many practical advantages. Don't need to list them here, we all know.
But they are so, so, so boring. Zero soul, zero character. Perfect appliance, zero passion.
Sometimes in life, passion matters too.
I like an EV for city commuting because commuting is boring no matter what so it's a good fit.
But for when I want to feel alive and drive (cue up Red Barchetta by Rush), no EV will ever do.
I look forward to teaching my kids to drive stick. Stick makes driving more engaging then automatic's point-and-go. Engagement breeds attentivity. Texting while driving stick is obviously decreased because both hands are actively required to drive. None of their friends will be able to drive my manual car. I don't know why anyone would hand their kid the keys to an automatic given its downsides.
It required some deft coordination to get out of the parking spot and getting up to speed, but I spent most of my time in fifth gear and staying there. One hand is just as free as it is in an automatic.
Texting while driving remains a bad idea, but I don't think a stick shift would prevent it. I could have managed to text just as well as I managed drinking coffee.
Righties tend to fiddle (not shift) with the shifter or have the right hand on the wheel most of the time. Texting offhanded with the left is miserable.
The truly dedicated can drive one-kneed, heel-toe, drink coffee, and text simultaneously. But manual definitely makes texting more obviously stupid by requiring intermittent use of the second hand.
I bet a teenager would at least give it the old high school try.
No downside really.
But as an analogy closer to HN, is there any advantage to knowing about software and operating systems and networking if all you're going to do is watch netflix on a walled-garden phone?
Same answer, no advantage really.
But knowledge is rewarding, understanding systems is fun.
Same here, in only a few years!
There might be no long term use for it (but near future use certainly, since all our regular cars are standard, only the truck and EV are not) but having another skillset is always good. And it makes driving so much more engaging.
I drive begrudgingly because where I live the public transportation is subpar, and there's no bike lanes (God I miss the Netherlands).
Owning and driving a car for me is pure utility, I have as much passion for it as I have for my dishwasher. I mean, I like my Toyota, it is comfortable and reliable. But it is really just a means to go from point A to point B. I want my car to be an appliance.
I wonder if many are like me or if most want their cars to be anything else.
For most people though, if they are buying a car it's because they can't practically get by without one, so things like "soul" and "character" of the car are irrelevant and actually an anti-feature if it makes the car cost more to own than an EV option which does the job perfectly well and is possibly even better in terms of features and comfort at the same TCO.
A bit like the unfortunate decision of Sony deciding to discontinue physical PlayStation discs was likely inevitable based on the market clearly preferring to move away from them [0], I suspect it's inevitable that sales of EVs will ultimately completely dwarf, if not entirely replace, ICE cars. If the range issue is solved (admittedly not a certainty), ICE cars could become relegated to usage only by enthusiasts like yourself and once the last generation who grew up with ICEs dies out, will probably be as common as a horse drawn cart.
[0]: https://bsky.app/profile/matpiscatella.bsky.social/post/3mrd...
I kept seeing YouTube videos of people reviewing electric chainsaws or snowblowers or whatever and apologizing to their core audience that they weren't woke Democrats, it was just a better tool for many uses.
I'm not saving money over gas, but I'm not spending a whole lot more and the lack of hassle is fantastic.
If I had a bigger yard I would hesitate to have lots of batteries or whatever.
Then in the late 80s, he purchased an electric lawnmower! Yep it wasn't battery-powered, but it had a little AC cord that you plugged in... somewhere! So Dad would just run a ginormous snake of an extension cord out across the lawn.
Now, our property wasn't large, but to reach an AC outlet, we really needed a lot of cord, and of course it was a key skill to not run over your own cord, like when you're vacuuming.
Dad never got anything gas-powered. He also had an edger that was electric, IIRC, and he made a lot of use of this edger. It was one of those kinds that used a fishing-line type cutting edge.
But he kept that machine around, and I guess it was fine for a very long time. Dad and Mom are old enough to employ a landscaping team, nowadays.
I have owned PHEVs and like them quite a bit, but if I'd bought them new I still wouldn't have reached the payback period. It seems that a PHEV typically costs $12k more than the ICE version, so the payback period is quite long (I think I estimated it to be 50k miles, assuming you charge for free at work, and gas is $5/gallon).
EVs and PHEVs can be great for some people, and some may even save money with them (maintenance is blessedly low). But I find it unlikely that for "most" US drivers, they would save money (and of course they would save on emissions, this is kind of a useless thing to add to the headline).
Pretty much _any_ EV car is better both cost wise and emissions wise than _any_ PHEV.
The same holds comparing PHEV with ICE.
Not to mention that EVs are just so much more fun and satisfying to drive. Even a mediocre EV these days will do 0-60 in 5s.
At this point buying anything but an EV for the typical driver is just objectively the wrong choice.
I always thought there’s a lot more to driving satisfaction and “fun” than slamming that pedal in a straight line. But most drivers will settle for 0-60 because it’s “accessible” fun, everyone can slam the pedal (and sadly this is so visible in daily traffic). There are very few EVs that manage to mask their weight in a corner.
One does not need to take frequent vacations for the cost of renting a vehicle to really add up. If you went for a week, twice a year, that could be a thousand dollars right there.
The selling point for EVs is the much nicer ride they now produce (much quieter interior, much better acceleration, usually much better technology package) and the potentially much cheaper operation depending on your driving situation.
I am an example of the new electric car buyer. I test drove a toyota crown and a toyota bz and the bz surprised me with how much drastically better it was to drive. I then did the math on operating it and vs my 12 year old SUV it will save me between 3 and 5 thousand a year on fuel costs and probably another few hundred on maintenance because I now have 3 kids and drive 25k - 30k kms a year vs 10k kms when I bought the suv. If the battery actually last 10 years I will likely save 30-50 thousand on op costs so it was a no brainer to go electric. If the battery pricing improves and the terrible charging infra improves, when I go to replace my second car in five years I will probably go electric there too, mostly depending on the charging infra since I still do some longer inter city/province driving for which the bz will be a pain in western Canada.
I could see the government having a tax program or incentives to build charging stations. But the cars should have needed that, they should be selling themselves.
https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/used-electric-vehicle...
People who want EVs to save money aren't interested in buying brand new, expensive luxury EVs but that's where the supply was.
Americans don't like having less money in their pocket - who does? - but it's pretty clear that for American car buyers, fuel efficiency is just one concern among many.
After all, a gallon of gas costs the same no matter how rich or poor you are. If government policy keeps fuel affordable for families in the 25th percentile ($41k annual household income) then a family in the 75th percentile ($153k household income) can easily afford the fuel needed to commute to their office job in a crew cab F150, if they so wish.
Of course, that 25th-percentile family's demand for fuel will be inelastic in the short term if their house is a 45 minute drive from their workplace. So when prices rise they'll really feel the crunch - and they'll make plenty of noise about it. But they ain't the ones buying brand new vehicles.
The bigger problem, though, was that the EV we were considering (a Prius) was scarce. So even though I couldn't make the alleged price make sense … well, if there's no supply, then the price may as well be $∞.
So IDK, since that lack of supply also seems to suggest other people disagree (or put utility to the ecological aspects).
the range is so bad that he couldn’t even finish the thought about range
that’s hilarious and I’m an EV driver, in warm and sunny southwest though
Do you even need a car?
Do you live in a house or an apartment?
If you're in an apartment, is there car parking with charging infrastructure?
If you're in a house, do you own it or are you renting?
Do you have solar panels?
How long is your daily drive?
How often do you need to travel further than the car's range?
How much can the car recharge overnight?
Can you plug the car in anywhere to charge overnight?
What public charging infrastructure is nearby?
What rate are you charged for electricity?
I'm in a house with solar and battery and have had a 2014 Nissan Leaf for nearly two years. It costs $11k, and in that time has saved us around $2,500 in petrol. We've since purchased another EV, replacing a petrol family car, both of which have about the same range with a 'full tank', except the EV costs about $5 to go from empty to full whilst the petrol car was about $70. We've only had the new one about 3 months, so I can't speak to reliability over an extended period. Both cars are charged overnight just at 10A, 240V, no fast charge and so far they cover our normal daily usage no worries.
I'm aware that I'm lucky in that my situation seems to be a perfect use-case for EVs.
(I'm also not in the US, and so the recent EV was cheaper or at least comparable to equivalent petrol cars; someone mentioned a 'payback period', in my case it doesn't apply).