Men That Don't Fit In (1911) | Hacker News Reader

Men That Don't Fit In (1911)

poetryfoundation.org

73 pointsoidar40 comments

Copied from: THE SPELL OF THE YUKON AND OTHER VERSES by Robert Service

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/207/207-h/207-h.htm

I studied "The Cremation of Sam McGee" in elementary school and it was a favourite of my grandmother. It's well-known in Canada, as far as poetry goes, though the poem most Canadians know by heart (at least partially) is "In Flanders Fields", which is recited solemnly on Remembrance Day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Flanders_Fields

Show me a successful "steady, quiet, plodding" person from the outside, and I'll show you someone who "doesn't know how to rest" and continually makes "fresh mistakes" on the inside.

How do you know?

I'd be curious to know the average salary in 1911 versus cost to purchase a house in 1911. If you can plod along for 15 years and buy a house with cash (i don't think credit/mortgages existed in 1911?). Makes plodding seems like the right choice.

Service's life story is quite the read, and lovely context IMHO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_W._Service

Service called his work "verse, not poetry", I just learned. I consider myself singularly unendowed in the whole "understanding poetry" thing, and here is a poem that I can actually understand, and relate to its, and enjoy in its simple musicality. Thanks

It sounds like he had ADHD. Some people (and I'm using that term to include all genders here) cannot handle discomfort, and my speculation is that this is caused by chemicals in the brain.

Handling discomfort is a skill we must all learn, and different skills are required to manage different kinds of discomfort. Because we all vary in our degrees of sensitivity to different unpleasantnesses, and because our life paths give us more or less exposure to the experiences which cause them, some people get quite far into adulthood without learning to manage forms of discomfort others have been handling since childhood: but it is not necessarily the case that they cannot cope with those discomforts, in some ultimate sense, just that they have not yet learned the trick of it. Often there is some habitual pattern of avoidance which must be unlearned before that can happen.

This is me. Has anyone broken this curse before it's too late?

Me too. In my mid 30s and afraid it's too late.

Curious what makes you think it is too late?

I felt like that at your age. Now 40 and realizing my energy was wasted worrying when there's so much more potential left. I believe I'd feel similar at 50. There's a lot of living left to do.

Maybe we should exchange emails and hold each other accountable

can you count me in too.

Start a meetup for one of your own passions. Then you’re not the one that has to fit in.

My passion is retro shmup, beat’em up, and run n’ gun games — basically designed either directly for the arcade or with that style in mind for modern games. I live in a small city but I noticed a steady stream of these kinds of games coming into the hock shop where I scooped them up for my collection. Figured there must be at least a few people that like these kinds of games if they are circulating locally.

Started a meetup with barely any solo marketing in local Facebook groups. I rented a small space, and lo and behold a handful of people showed up. We had some snacks and played some games. Made a couple new friends.

Tangentially related: things like this is why Sony discontinuing physical games is a horrible move and a massive blow to gaming culture. Never would’ve had this idea if I never was able to pick up a used copy of Battle Garegga at my local hock shop.

For me specifically this hurts:

If they just went straight they might go far; They are strong and brave and true; But they're always tired of the things that are, And they want the strange and new. They say: "Could I find my proper groove, What a deep mark I would make!" So they chop and change, and each fresh move Is only a fresh mistake.

seems they haven't read george bernhard shaw or at least heard his famous quote on the subject. he was a contemporary too.

Is it really a curse? This poem takes as axiomatic the ideas that life is a race, that winning matters, that winning involves a specific destination, and that this destination is more or less the same for everyone: but none of those premises strike me as being particularly defensible. What we are seeing in this poem is not the rambling man as he experiences his own life, but as he is seen through the eyes of a person with a very different value system.

This is the part that's a curse. And yes it's a curse because you never build anything because you don't know what that even feels like.

Yes it does sound like a value judgement made by someone who "fits in", probably after drinking several pints down the pub.

However I think the poem may be deeply ironic, given Robert W Service was probably a member of the "Lost Legion" himself:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/robert-w-service

Yeah, this poem deeply resonated with me.

In my case it turned out that all my discontent and not fitting in was a blessing rather than a curse. Kept me untethered so when I finally hit my breaking point I could look inside until I found peace.

Took almost 40 years to reach my breaking point, but I've pretty much done a factory reset on my internal OS in the past year and a bit, been wonderful.

Yeah me too. In mid 30s, suffering.

Meh most people accomplish nothing. The trick is to be satisfied with whatever one's circunstances.

I've always said that having a goal is the first step towards failure.

"I found that if you have a goal, that you might not reach it. But if you don't have one, then you are never disappointed. And I gotta tell ya it feels phenomenal"

And even he learned by the end the only real satisfaction is in helping others.

"Well, I guess if a person never quit when the going got tough, they wouldn't have anything to regret for the rest of their life. But good luck to you Peter. I'm sure this decision won't haunt you forever!"

Made me chuckle. I say have winnable goals

Accomplishments are what we make of them. Every person to ever live accomplishes nothing at the end, and everything in passing.

when I look at myself, I dispair, when I look at the competition, I rejoice.

Woof

This cuts me to the bone

Was this really written in 1911?

I guess things never really change, humans are still humans

Do you believe," said Martin, "that hawks have always eaten pigeons when they have found them?" "Yes, without doubt," said Candide. "Well, then," said Martin, "if hawks have always had the same character why should you imagine that men may have changed theirs?

I mean there is a difference between lower level evolved behaviours like seeking out food species or being tribal and higher level societal behaviours such as deciding that tribalism is unnecessary under some circumstance, such as judging people by the colour of their skin in a modern, mixed society.

man (humans) is not an animal. the society of man has always changed and evolved. it's actually in the nature of man to change and adapt. the question should therefore be: why should you imagine that men have not changed their character?

believing that you can not change your character is merely an excuse to demand tolerance for bad behavior.

I mean, humans are definitely animals.

I'm not sure the society of 'man' has evolved the same way you propose.

Looking back at thousands of years of history, Modern Man is frantically trying to find a niche to call his own.

With no armies needed, no game to harvest, no wild animals to protect from, and no household to build....unfortunatley the currently model might simply be antiquated.

fwiw, 100 years is a like a drop in ocean for human emotions.

What a bunch of crap.

If you spend your life running to and fro and never commit to anything in the end, then arguably you've frittered your life away.

But maybe, just maybe, what you've really been doing this whole time is building up a wealth of diverse experiences, which in turn give you a broad understanding of the world and the ability to bring a unique and wonderful perspective to life. One that is completely your own, and special and important and infinitely valuable precisely because of the long period of exploration that you committed your early life to.

I recommend this book endlessly. Anybody who reads this stupid poem and gets a sinking feeling in their chest should pick up a copy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Range:_Why_Generalists_Triumph...

Are you saying that it’s impossible for the lack of persistence or focus to be problematic in someone’s life?

no, they are saying that not committing to anything need not be lack of persistence or focus. i have been that person. i am that person. it turns out my goal wasn't to master a specific skill or trade, but to build connections, work with people and help them with whatever they need help with. so my focus was and is on that. it didn't help me build a traditional career, but it led me around the whole world, building up a unique set of experiences and understanding.

Not impossible, but I disagree fervently with the notion that that "lack of focus is nothing but wasted time".

Trying things, experimenting, acquiring a diversity of experience in life that eventually builds into something greater than the sum of its parts: that is an extremely undervalued part of living.

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