IceCream – Never use print() to debug again | Hacker News Reader

IceCream – Never use print() to debug again

github.com

35 pointsgregsadetsky22 comments

Or use tests and/or a debugger. Which gives you all the listed benefits w/o an additional dependency.

Yeah, the amount of wasted hours with 1960's teletype debugging.

Ah but servers and embedded, that is why telemetry, execution traces, and debugger controlled action points exist.

Different tools for different cases. Debuggers are great for a snapshot in time but print statements are better for seeing the execution flow.

As a profession we need to phase out point in time debuggers and replace them with reverse debuggers or "time travel" debuggers

I think PIT debuggers have their use especially with regards to altering state mid run, but this is the first time I've heard of reverse debugging and it seems incredibly useful, especially for multithreaded software I'm often debugging

>Do you ever use print() or log() to debug your code?

I haven't written my own code in months at this point...kind of depressing to think about

My first thought as well. Debugging is actually a decent use case of AI.

I have a board with a logic analyzer, debug/flash probe, PSU, and multimeter on my desk being driven and debugged all autonomously by the AI.

While the automation and systems side of my brain is thrilled that all of this id automated and integrated, developer brain is sad

So what do you actually do then?

i got half way through the readme for this project and had the same thought and got sad and just left the page

My own TS project was inspired by IceCream: https://github.com/Leftium/gg#coding-agent-access

It began as a better `console.log()` for humans, but I ended up making it better for AI coding agents.

I got tired of copying dev console output, so coding agents can now just insert the exact calls they need and query the output without human intervention.

Debugging in python is already so easy with `print(f"{myvar=}")` and `breakpoint()`...

This is the correct answer. `ic(foo(123))` can be written as `print(f'{foo(123)=}')` without depending on yet another third-party library which is not pulling its weight.

I haven’t used print for debugging for ages. Now it’s all trace on azure and hope your bug ends up in the sampled data in whatever that stupid thing is called. App insights or some rubbish. Apparently a good old log file just isn’t good enough it has to be larded up with a query language. Grep was fine guys.

Cannot recommend icecream, way too slow. But the use case of logging shines with realtime systems, or concurrent apps. You won't be able to efficiently debug them without logging. I live in my debugger, but logging is mandatory for the big picture.

hey! icecream author here. what/how/where is icecream too slow for your use case(s)? feedback is how good products become great

It's neat how trivial it is to do this in C, only takes a couple of macros. https://github.com/trvv/_/blob/d4899741c4f35833b8e86d16e2163...

Looks like the project has a linked repo that appears to do a similar thing for C but it doesn't generically format the arguments.

Yeah this is a miss for me. I've never felt that this was a considerable source of friction. Certainly not enough to justify a dependency.

hey! icecream author here. let me know your thoughts on what could make icecream more useful to you. feedback is how good products become great

Remember COBOL's EXHIBIT?

...use slightly fancier print() instead!

why another tool for that ? think standard with other team/company and use the same integrated ones.

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