But I'd say it's not "too much nationalism" rather the average american is defintiely more patriotic than an average european (who can then again be anyone from the UK to Poland to Moldova) but you get my point
It would be more correct to say that the average American values outward displays of nationalism more, and has a more negative perception of those who do not appreciate or want to participate in those displays than people in most other countries. And yes, they conflate this with 'patriotism'. However, this is almost completely performative and lacks real substance, as is proven by the typically far more selfish attitude towards their fellow citizens, and is exemplified by the constant historical failures to provide significant funding for projects designed to help rather than harm others.
Europeans and people from other countries around the world are often fiercely in love with their countries. They just tend not to love the idea of noisily jumping up to gaudily beat their own drum. So yes, the average American thinks they are more nationalistic, when in fact they are just more tribal and crude about their nationalism than what is typically found in other countries around the world. If only our nationalism were taken a bit more seriously than our affiliation with a sports team, which is in theory just for fun and entertainment, that would be an improvement.
You're not wrong that the American public is largely out of touch with the fundamentals of a free society.
> I wonder where that comes from.
> Leadership
Democracy is great but that elected leaders seek reelection at the expense of the common folk isn't something new, those in power will naturally seek more power.
The problem is that Americans look at vulnerable people and billionaires like they individually deserved their fate. The cult of merit.
See https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2026/02/17/what-makes-peo... and especially note that the US is one of the top countries for percentage of population with primarily negative views of their country, at 20%.
> Europeans and people from other countries around the world are often fiercely in love with their countries.
I would also disagree with this, I think it's profoundly uncool to love your country in many parts of Europe—think the UK and especially Germany.
The Europeans that did actually fiercely love their country that I've met were all Poles or Serbs that were gaudily beating their own drum.
What problems do you think arise from nationalism in it's current form in the US?
I think that's because you're focusing on outward displays in exactly the way GP was talking about. It's profoundly uncool to be a flag-shagger, but Brits do very much love their country deep down, in the ways that really matter.
That said, this may have also been a photo op, and given the image is from texas, there are probably portraits of a dictator hanging around, too.
Of course now it's different, the flag is less common, to the point in my home province (Alberta) you see more Albertan flags than Canadian ones...
Here's how it works for the non-Americans of us:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all," should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart.
Remembering this often-forgotten detail puts a lot of US culture and behaviour in perspective. Also let's not forget the Bellamy salute, in use for 50 years until 1942: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute
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1: and in congressional sessions, government meetings at local levels, and meetings held by many private organizations, according to Wikipedia
There most certainly is not. The pledge is common in schools but the Supreme Court has ruled no one is required to participate and cannot be punished for non-participation. Is it still weird? Sure. But it’s not required.
How many schools still do it, though? Honestly you could tell me it was almost universal or very rare, and I'd have to believe you either way.
Of course, Canada was doing the freaking Lord's Prayer in schools until freaking 1988. I don't know about other countries, but wouldn't be surprised.
What sort of consequences? I'm guessing the US got rid of corporal punishment, and since it's optional, could they give like detention and stuff for it? Or is this more about being bullied/similar by peers?
Also the US did not get rid of corporal punishment entirely, the south still has it in some places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_corporal_punishment_in_...
At least in the US, teachers and administrators are given rather broad latitude to treat students differently, without requiring justification and very often based on their own personal biases and prejudices.
If one's ideals fall over so easily, what would happen in the event of an actual serious attack on those ideals?
I always disliked the Pledge and began to strongly dislike it after moving away from the religion it tries to establish as the national religion, but I was keenly aware that picking this fight would cost me considerable political capital and chose not to.
So as individuals we choose to fly the flag a lot.
Which values? "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." does not seem to be upheld very strongly in the USA.
What about women's rights and abortion upturned by the current government, why are Black Lives Matter protests against police brutality needed 50 years after Martin Luther King, what about thousands of people disappeared by Trump's ICE, what about the enormous wealth inequality where the wealthy seem to be a lot more 'equal' than the plebs, what about nobody being punished for the 2008 financial crisis or the Epstein events or the Jan 6th attempted coup? Or the unwillingness of so many people to wear masks during COVID out of respect for their fellow Americans?
How can you claim a "core kernel of universal shared values" without nation-wide universal health care, workers rights, liveable minimum wage, things that demonstrate a fundamental belief in equality and shared values??
Because the US shared values are not your values. Everything you mentioned are socialist pipe dreams, especially the equality one. None of us are equal to each other. Some of us are good at something, others at something else. This equality crap needs to die rather sooner than later.
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
The media has really done a number on us, basically throughout the West. I don't know enough about other area's media to comment.
Outside of that the main people flying national flags are government institutions, who usually have it up right next to a European flag and a flag of the institution, like a local municipality.
The European flag is also plastered over billboards next to all kinds of EU-funded construction projects, of course, and is on literally every single Euro bill.
So no, someone's feelings about an institution are not inherently linked to the success of its empty propaganda campaigns.
A defense plant probably has more outward signs of patriotism.
> similar to how dictators like to hang their portraits
Insane comparison as the idea of a free country is fundamentally different than the cult of personality that dictators create.
This has to be a troll post. Associating the US flag with MAGA? Sighing because a major international airport has a large flag hanging over the baggage area? Come on.
To not realize this to me means you either haven't been paying attention, or very much live in a bubble. This is not new.
https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/politics/2026/07/02/...
https://www.newyorker.com/news/us-journal/the-changing-meani...
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/some-trump-supporters-...
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/14/style/donald-trump-americ...
More than half of US independent voters and more than 70% of Democrats believe the flag has right wing, negative connotations now. Only 26-27% of Democrats believe flying the flag would be seen in a positive light now.
https://www.politico.com/news/2026/07/05/poll-patriotism-pol...
So the right wing overuses flag imagery, and as a result the left starts to view the flag as problematic? That's a Democrat/liberal problem.
>To not realize this to me means you either haven't been paying attention, or very much live in a bubble.
I pay attention and don't live in a bubble, and I still think it's absolutely absurd to let the overuse of your countries flag by a specific political group dictate how you feel about seeing said flag.
Independents too, which is larger that either the Democratic party or Republican party in the US.
It's only the Republicans that have a positive view of it at this point.
When you do awful shit and wrap yourself in symbology, surprise, good things like swastikas suddenly become symbols of hate and oppression that were not before. This is a pattern that repeats itself throughout history and across country lines.