Comment by weinzierl | Hacker News Reader

Comment by weinzierl | Hacker News Reader

As a kid I used to substitute in an injection molding plant. We worked for four hours, pause, four hours. The plant ran three shifts, 7 days a week.

I worked in a big hall with two rows of molding machines. Each one had a pole with a yellow beacon light at the top.

The machines had fixed cycle times and the operator had to repeat the same steps every cycle. For example on one machine I had to put four small metal cylinders into the mould, close the door, wait, open the door and remove the finished parts. Cycle time was only a couple of seconds usually, with the shortest one I remember being 8 seconds. If you were too slow the machine stopped and the yellow light went on.

You also could stop the machine on purpose. There was a field with 3 by 6 buttons or something with different stopping reasons, toilet break being one of them.

So far, this probably doesn't sound too bad, but to complete picture you have to know two things:

1. Every restart meant throwing away the first one or two minutes of production

2. Foreman had to keep a quota.

That meant, yellow light, foreman came and shouted at you. The buttons were never used. You spent four hours straight doing the same routine every couple of seconds without skipping a beat.

Whenver I think my job is bad I remember that time and I'm glad for what I have.

> Foreman had to keep a quota.

I have worked on production lines and I’ve worked in the manufacturing and quality engineering side of things.

I know a lot of companies do have that old school production at all cost approach, but the better places I’ve worked at have put quality metrics ahead of productivity metrics.

Usually the metrics are safety, quality, delivery, and cost in that priority.

I know Goodhart’s law, “when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to become a good measure,” gets quoted a bunch on HN, but then nothing else is offered up. In my opinion, having these additional metrics with their own targets serves to balance out and constrain a single metric screwing things up. For example, if productivity is going up by producing lower quality parts, this will be shown in either the quality metrics (e.g., scrap rate, yield) or the cost metrics (e.g., material costs have increased, rework costs have increased).

The other component of it all is that the operators can only produce to the level of the systems they have. They can make some small, point improvements to help, but generally there need to be larger process or system level changes supported to make significant improvements.

> Whenver I think my job is bad I remember that time and I'm glad for what I have.

I generally suspect folks would be a lot happier if they'd had a few more crap jobs as a baseline!

I think my lowest point was vacuum packing smoked salmon. It wasn't dissimilar in some ways (repeat simple task endlessly), but the real crux was the absolute inability to evade the smell. It came home with you and lingered hard. The greasy aroma of kitchen fryers had nothing on this.

Yep.

* Unloading fish on a wharf during a violent snowstorm, at night.

* Doing the stop/go signs on roadworks for 12 hours in the rain.

* Carrying heavy boxes of government records up 5 flights of stairs from a basement for eight hours, and the next day, carrying them up 2 flights of stairs to their new home - blew out the medial meniscus in my right knee doing that

* Carrying what Americans call drywall, but like the kind with noise deadening material in it that makes it heavier, non-stop for three weeks during the construction of an art gallery. Ever had that thing where your body just says "no" because you've been pushing your muscles too hard and your fingers go nerveless and involuntarily release? I got a written warning for that because I dropped the expensive drywall. Only kind of drywall that was worse was the drywall used to line X-ray rooms in medical centres.

* Working the recycling trucks - the bins we emptied into the sorting tray had drainage holes in the bottom, and you had to lift them above your head to tip them into the sorting tray, so when you did, a lovely mixture of coagulating milk / wine / beer / whatever other fluids came from unclean recycling would run down your arm and until I learned to tape up the cuffs of my overalls, inside your overalls. And when we went to offload, rubbish dump dust would stick to your sweat / recycling juice, so every day ended up stinking and filthy.

* Kitchenhand in an airport kitchen so poorly managed I was the longest serving dishpig they'd ever had when I stayed there six months. I outlasted about 8 cooks, I suppose they had options.

* Case worker in social security - understaffed, pressured to achieve unrealistic numbers, and often directed by policy to not help people who needed help.

* Oh, and roguing for wild oats in wheat fields in near 100°F heat.

Those jobs really help me appreciate how privileged and lucky I am to be a developer.

I've done some odd jobs too; worked in an assembly plant for toilet freshener plastic things, most of the time was spent making sure the components were supplied to the machines and their workers and collecting, weighing, spot checking, stacking and wrapping the finished product boxes on pallets, but for a few weeks I was at one of the machines, putting a little foam insert rough-side-up on a plastic frame. Two hours on end, break, two hours, lunch, etc. It was earbuds in, brain off, blink, day finished, part of me misses it.

Other jobs were harvesting lettuce (on your knees with a knife behind a conveyor, my knees were fooked after a few days), building scaffolding in 30+ degree weather (lasted two weeks I think?), working at a DIY store (restocking, mixing paint, cleaning, it was a decent job, I was there for over a year working part-time), delivering newspapers, etc.

Each sounds like a process that could have been improved if andon had been implemented.

> I generally suspect folks would be a lot happier if they'd had a few more crap jobs as a baseline!

Fully agree. I cleaned a potato processing plant at night. They had to stop production for a few hours so there was huge time pressure. Crawling under machines to drain waste water tanks (onto yourself as the plug was of course on the bottom), slippery potato-mash everywhere, reaching into and almost running over all kinds of machines and conveyor belts.

All while wearing a rubber suit in the heat of warm water pressure washers and the smell of industrial cleaning agents.

So yes, I'll happily take that 15 minute useless "strategy meeting" with you.

> I generally suspect folks would be a lot happier if they'd had a few more crap jobs as a baseline!

One of my first coding jobs, was maintenance programming a 1970s-vintage FORTRAN IV codebase (primitive email system).

Over 100KLoC of slop-quality pasta. Not one single comment. No subroutines, 2-character variable names, etc. The original author was around, but it was worth your job to bother him. I was better off, using a Ouija board, to contact his father.

That informed my approach, for the rest of my life.

> I generally suspect folks would be a lot happier if they'd had a few more crap jobs as a baseline!

I'll go one further. Not only should everybody have to do a crap job or two, but they should have to work with the public. Imagine how much more chill people would be with service workers having had the experience of being one themselves.

Cheese warehouse: the feta buckets always leaked onto to wooden pallets, making an unholy stink.

My step dad's worst was shoveling iron shot used to grind cement out of the grinder, lifting them up over his head, next to the kiln on an already boiling hot Californian summer day.

Salmon canning in Alaska was many people's ticket/gateway to that romantic state. If you were a climbing or ski bum or fishing bum type of guy, it was a great but grueling gig that would grant you access to the best outdoors spots in the world.

Salmon canning was also a gateway to getting on board the crab boats (Deadliest Catch boats), which was another dream for many a young man, and where you could make real money (even more grueling) - and have plenty of leisure to boot.

Interesting manufacturing story that does sound pretty crappy.

To bring it across to Andon and Lean, Deming literally addressed this as one of his 14 points of quality management that Lean manufacturing follows:

Point 11. Eliminate numerical quotas for the workforce and numerical goals for management.

What’s important here is not that there are buttons in a factory but rather the culture that goes along with their usage.

Point 8. Drive out fear, seems relevant here also.

Sorry you experienced this.

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