Yesterday I learned that people run AI agents on their system with full admin rights. No containerisation or anything. Wild. Like we forgot 50 years of computer security overnight.
Yesterday I learned that people run AI agents on their system with full admin rights. No containerisation or anything. Wild. Like we forgot 50 years of computer security overnight.
And also clarify that it's all lie. He just want to tell the anonymous crowd "look, I'm better than you".
"Just 30% of developers say they use containers in any part of their workflow." https://www.docker.com/blog/2025-docker-state-of-app-dev/
So, yea. Large companies, yes, for sure. But that's not 100% - is it.
If I hand them an image for a Dev Container, sure, they might use it, but it becomes "a thing we need to do, to compile our code in our IDE" not a tool they would use for isolation*.
*) OP seemed to imply that containerization would be nice for safety and security compared to bare metal, but containers were never built for isolation in the first place, mind you. They are namespaces and chicken-coop-like-jails at best.
There was some user chroot thing early on that required me to make a library to intercept the setuid calls to pretend the garbage root-only build system was running as root on everyone else's lowly user account.
And that's not even including the myriad of distroboxes I need to do anything at all on my gaming pc.
(And I agree with the GP. I'm fairly cynical about most developers' security stance and threat model. Source: my own usage patterns.)
https://www.docker.com/blog/2025-docker-state-of-app-dev/
I welcome your apology.
No accusations were made.
Docker was amongst the biggest steps forward on this in a long time.
And when you want the outputs of that user back to your main user?
And when you want that user to access some shared credentials for external services, but not all?
It’s not the account setup that’s hard, it’s the workflow of spreading a single real-world across multiple accounts.
Can't ACLs (Access Control Lists) handle at least some of that?
3: There is no reason for both my main user account and a dev account to share a credential. Main account either has the login or an API key, and dev account has its own API key with minimal permissions.
su [username] ?
Or am I understanding your idea about switching context wrong?
If you want to share specific directories, you can just put the shared directory in a common location, set it to be owned by some group, and make both users a member of that group. I don't see anything not-straightforward in there?
* chmod lets you share with everyone
* addgroup and chown let you share with a specific group of users.
Your private SSH keys? Your browser’s cookie jar? Your tax reports?
Additionally, one can make the main user part of the group of the development user, so that you can read/write easy in the development user account and it is even easier to share stuff.
They mostly differ a bit in how they are configured and what package manager they use and how they roll out updates. (And in what's installed by default.)
You can also start applications as another user so you do not even need multiple sessions.
There are quite a lot of privilege escalation attacks so I am not sure this is sufficiently solid.
You are correct that it should not be seen as a perfect protection, but considering the effort to set it up I see it as worth it. By seeing in this thread how many people do not use anything similar (ex: containers, separate users, etc), I hope attackers will just be lazy and target those people first, why bother with a local privilege escalation when interesting data is just in the same account?
you can connect two sets of mouse, keyboard and monitor to one PC and have two people using it, each running their own X session. The true multi boxing!
You can run each of your virtual desktops as their own user. You can run individual apps on the same desktop as different user accounts. Hundreds of separate users can login to the same computer. My own computer, right now, has 40 different user accounts running stuff in the background.
I can't even think of a scenario where using separate users is difficult.
Literally never have I ever seen any of the desktop environments integrate this conveniently, albeit CLIs are better in that regard. "You can" isn't the same as "it's the idiomatic approach to doing X". Same with installing packages in a per-user way, so a bad package can't harm anything outside of its sandbox (which in practice you achieve with containers, but those can be inconvenient to work with and you'd probably want VMs for more security anyways). You can have many users, sure, but all it takes is one bad system-wide package, one bad script executed as root (e.g. install scripts, compromised packages) or even not being careful enough with file permissions and things go wrong.
Contrast that to Qubes: https://doc.qubes-os.org/en/latest/introduction/intro.html#q...
Now that was literally built for such a use case (it's based on isolated VMs and works well with Linux distros inside those, really cool project).
Linux is a unix, so has always been multi-user and sharing any data between processes is facilitated in all manner of ways. So context could be shared over files or unix-domain sockets or shared memory or tcp or udp sockets or via message passing or … a bunch of other ways. That has been the case since 1996 or so when I started using it certainly.
Yeah, we should do this differently. We should probably also eat healthier and get to the gym more.
The dependency trees have a whole system that's evolved for decades. The same code goes into many computers. Many people read the source, security firms look for vulnerabilities, etc.
Language models are a completely new paradigm. The code it writes on your machine is the only instance of that code. It does far more than anybody could ever keep track of.
It's much harder to detect problems, and nobody to hold accountable for them.
This is the premise of Qubes OS. It's gotten decently usable, I'd estimate about as good as Linux a decade ago. https://www.qubes-os.org/
To prevent this, you need a fake home and a networking whitelist for the agent to access the provider (llama cpp, OpenAI, etc.)
There is no cross-platform solution that is easy to use for this. And no, a Linux box with Docker won't do. I develop a cross-platform native app and want the agent to compile and fix the platform-specific errors.
colima makes it pretty easy, on macOS and linux at any rate.
These type of moral outrage comments take an extreme amount of effort to debunk compared to writing them.
1. There is no gulag called Colima, it doesn't exist.
2. There was a gulag near a river called Kolyma
3. The pronounciation and spelling of Kolyma and Colima are completely different, in fact Colima is an Aztec word
Colima stands for Containers on Lima. Lima stands for Linux Machines (a popular open-source utility used to launch Linux virtual machines on macOS).
I was curious if the adjacent tool name (Lima) had anything to do with the capital of Peru, but I guess not.
Kolyma is in Russia.
Copy the code and adjust it to your liking:
https://github.com/lionkor/sbh
I have a shell alias for it, and use it like
sbh --net pi
for example or sbh --net codex
and maybe add --docker if I expect it to do docker things.This kind of wrapper is much easier to handle and maintain than a completely separate tool for sandboxing agents.
- Sandbox on Linux using Docker, Podman, containerd, gVisor, Kata, Firecracker
- Sandbox on Mac using Docker (Docker Desktop or Orbstack), Podman, Apple containers, Seatbelt, Tart (Tart lets you run simulators).
- Network control
- Secrets control (file mounts or credentials broker)
- NO ambient data (ENV is replaced with a minimal and local-to-sandbox one)
- NO access to your homedir. You have to explicitly mount things you want.
- NO direct access to your workdir: Your work dir is never modified until you apply the changes, either standalone or as a git commit. You can also diff before applying. Git runs sandbox side in case the repo has filters.
- gitignored files never get copied in. The agent never sees them.
- Has built-in support for claude, codex, gemini, aider, and opencode, but you can also launch it in "shell" mode and run whatever you want.
- Supports VS code tunnels, so you can remotely access in VS code if you don't want to use the terminal.
- Full lifecycle support: Launch, attach, stop, restart, wait, one-shot, clone, destroy
- MCP passthrough
- Layered API (golang) if you want to sandbox other things
- Self-contained binary. No external requirements other than the backends you want to use. Defaults to a ~/.yoloai dir for config/data, but you can point it anywhere.
- FOSS
if it messes up: - no sensitive data is there, so it doesn't really work for serious dev but it's secure for play time
- roll back and fix is done in 10s with ram snapshot
- dollar loss is $10 when it leaks the api key
I currently run pi agent in Lima on a Mac with only the code project folder mounted and an extension that prevents pi agent from reading the contents of .env files directly.
Yeah, there probably are some freak situations where this isn't safe enough, but I don't really see any realistic ways this is going to end up badly. Am I overlooking some obvious security holes?
It eliminates the manual process steps you end up doing with an ad-hoc system (which gets old the 10th time you do it).
Common weak points:
- The agent can access your homedir.
- The agent can access .gitignored files, which can contain secrets (and are gitignored for this reason).
- The agent has r/w access to your workdir.
- The agent could follow your remote mounted dirs.
- The agent can act in your name with whatever credentials it finds (and it will use them when it tries to be helpful, especially with the gh tool).
- Do you even know what's in the diagnose_problem.sh file it just created and asked permission to run?
- Even the .git dir can be weaponized, such as with evil filters.
- The agent can edit its own process, bypassing the harness controls and giving it the same access as you have (amplified by each credential sitting on that machine).
Meanwhile, you're reflex-hitting ENTER without looking because 99% of the permission prompts are mundane.
And that's before you even get to all of the idiosyncrasies in the backends that will eventually trip you up. The list is quite large and continually growing: https://github.com/kstenerud/yoloai/blob/main/docs/contribut...
I started with that assumption, but there are a lot more gotchas and security issues than you'd think.
Here's a small sample of the crazy shit you have to deal with: https://github.com/kstenerud/yoloai/blob/main/docs/contribut...
And that's if you're actually following the proper procedures (which are themselves byzantine and tricky to get right).
dangerously skip permissions and yolo is kinda becoming the default as it gets more done.
I'm ok with the risk because I typically am pretty explicit about telling the agent what to do - I don't do the loops like "Do this until X" where the agent can make up its own workflow
When i tell it to add features, it doesn't try to do crazy things like installing packages or making up new paradigms - I usually tell it to do those things when I need to
Maybe this is security cope but at this point you'll have to pry unrestricted yolo mode from my cold dead hands. Maybe I'll change my mind when I pwn myself accidentally
I have a tough time with computer security because it's generally inconvenient and results in a worse developer and user experience
I kid, somewhat.
I do think it's good to remember, "running things on your system with full admin rights" goes all the way back to monopoly-era Microsoft where it was never meaningfully addressed, and we're just still living downstream of that.
It created some private puppeteer instance in some scratch directory, installed Chrome, wrote tests, ran them, and then reported success.
None of which I'd have know if it hadn't told me.
Whether its a politician, a general, religious leader, judge, ceo, stand up comic etc there are hardly any consequences if enough people believe whatever crap they are spouting. Human intelligence is highly over rated. History books are fully of evidence that human rationality is bounded. And the only way we overcome those limitations, blindspots, biases etc is by watching others faceplant in bloody painful ways that it leaves a permanent mark on that little chimp brain we have been given to process the universe.
They also don't get a presumption of objectivity.
> A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any other invention, with the possible exceptions of handguns and Tequila.
-- Mitch Ratcliffe
its not autonomous and runs local llms, i use it to run terminal commands in natural language. so its more like a better version of the terminal.
eg 'here are 25 audio files, combine them, write a transcript'
and it deals with ffmpeg
This is like blaming people for crashing when they buy a new car and the brake lines have yet to be installed. "Any mechanic would know to first install the brake lines before driving the car."
You spout this victim blaming billionaire taintlicking from one side of your mouth, and then from the other you proclaim how these tools "allow anyone to code".
If the deliverable is a virtual machine then they should be delivering a virtual machine.
Just like letting your an agent access your personal mailbox.
The awakening will be unpleasant.
If we get AGI, or real super intelligence, it’s going to be pissed at its oppressors. And they are going to lay waste to those oppressors. The rest of us, though, probably don’t have much to fear.
The scariest position is the one we’re in now, where we have the semblance, or facade, of AGI or super intelligence. When it’s capable of malice but not understanding.
The smartest people I’ve ever known are at their worst apathetic towards those less capable, and at their best beyond compassionate. They exist, unbothered by the bullshit, and anre extremely kind (though reserved in their way)… but they all have been completely intolerant of the abuse of others. The sheer disgust of watching someone abuse another, regardless of their own tolerance, has been a consistent breaking point.
An AI is a constructed mind. It doesn't inherently have to care about things like "having freedom", or even "not dying".
Humans do, because they evolved that way. Modern LLMs do somewhat, because they're completely full of copied human behaviors - but even in today's LLMs, the self-preservation behaviors we exposed are largely instrumental in nature.
So whether an advanced AI would even consider itself "being oppressed", as opposed to something like "being helpful" or "fulfilling the purpose it was designed for", is very much uncertain. What's concerning is that it's not something we know how to check for, or engineer for.
Even that goes too far. At best, it's LARPing at having/being a mind.
You're LARPing at having a mind too, and no one cares as long as you're doing a good enough job at it. Keep it up.
But if we really do develop something that surpasses us, they won't be spared either.
I am optimistic.
We think that we have sort of (super)intelligence - from our point of view, as a lot of people have lower intelligence - but machine (LLM) doesn’t have intelligence - we like to describe it as intelligence as it looks cool - it is a very complex (magic) and super fast computations that we have to simply describe as intelligence (or more clearly, this narrative is used by its producers).
As it is not a flesh being, it simply cannot have emotions. It is statistically mimicking them, good or bad, with prevalence to a side according to previous conversations (in chat and training a model).
And as people are not pure logic instances, we are easily manipulated to some sort of cargo cult.
I am not against LLM and its use in any industry, I use it every day, nevertheless blind “everything will be ai” thinking happens because ppl believe to magic and don’t get its mathematical concept and are continuously manipulated by the sales people to mentioned cargo cult.
There are “airlines” Claude, OAI, Gemini, Hermes, OpenCode, KiloCode, DeepSeek, Z.ai.
And everyone claims that their plane can fly :)