Survey of MIT Students on their Stress | Hacker News Reader

Survey of MIT Students on their Stress

tech.mit.edu

84 pointsFrojoS64 comments

Very interesting. Some people take this to think MIT students have self-image problems, but I don't see that. To me I see this as most students reasonably confident with their own abilities (although feel they could do a bit better academically, although those are just high standards), but are very humble about themselves relative to their peers.

Compared to most groups in life, this is a very rare breed of "yes I know I'm amazing, but I know the people around me are REALLY amazing". Which I'd argue is shockingly healthy for such a large group of people so smart and under so much pressure.

I know I'm judging, but wow, MIT students (for how smart they are in general) are not the most self-confident bunch... 9-21% of students think that next to the AVERAGE, their accomplishments are impressive.

I expected this to be skewed above 50%. I wonder what response sets for this survey would be like at other schools.

Yes, and only 31% consider themselves above average academically.

I have to laugh, but it's also sad that so many MIT students feel so insecure. I think it must be the shock that comes from being at the top of one's high school, then arriving at MIT and no longer being head-and-shoulders above most of one's peers.

Anyway, maybe the administration should see if there's something they can do to give students a more realistic view of where they stand.

I came here to point that out as well. But I was thinking it was a good thing, rather than a bunch of fools playing out the Dunning–Kruger effect.

One of the more valuable things you can learn as a smart kid in college is that you're not the smartest kid around. It also means that they're being challenged at the school. There's plenty of schools that are hard to get in, but there's no challenge after you're in.

Besides, I don't know about you, but I can't stand people that think (or pretend) they're heads and shoulders above in ability when they're not.

http://tech.mit.edu/V132/N59/pressure/breakdown/year/index.h...

For me personally, most of the stress does come from being challenged academically.The professors pull no punches, and some of the classes are downright exhausting.

Although I appreciate being challenged, it can be disheartening whenever I observe the local coding guru / math major knocking out problems in a fraction of the time it takes me.

However, I believe that this student response best sums it up:

"I still believe it’s true that at MIT, students generally compete more against themselves than against each other."

Everyone simply wants to be the best that they can be.

- MIT Sophomore in EECS

Dunning and Kruger also found that people with above-average competence rate their own competence lower than it actually is.

I think it must be the shock that comes from being at the top of one's high school, then arriving at MIT and no longer being head-and-shoulders above most of one's peers.

It's been a while since I was at MIT, but this was my experience and that of a lot of the people I knew there. I have to admit, though, that if I had taken a survey like this while I was there, I would have rated myself above average. :-)

maybe the administration should see if there's something they can do to give students a more realistic view of where they stand.

Many of the courses I took, at least for the first couple of years, were graded on a curve, so you could tell where you stood, at least roughly, by your grade. Perhaps that's less prevalent now.

> I would have rated myself above average. :-)

Yeah, me too :-)

(Class of 1980)

I can relate to this during my time at MIT. It isn't that students are unaware that MIT is an immensely talented community and just fail to put their own relative difficulties into perspective. There is a strong desire to feel like you belong among your peers. Yet there is always someone doing something that seems out of your reach, which amplifies those lingering internal questions of whether your actually good enough to be there.

I doubt that we're talking about insecurity or lack of confidence; but rather the lack of a certain type of egotism. In my experience at least, gifted people tend to avoid egotism altogether.

> I think it must be the shock that comes from being at the top of one's high school, then arriving at MIT and no longer being head-and-shoulders above most of one's peers.

Yup. Some stats for a recent MIT entering class:

97% were in the top 10% of their high school class. 100% where in the top 25%.

25/75 percentile SAT math: 740/800

25/75 percentile SAT critical reading: 670/770

25/75 percentile SAT writing: 680/770

Only about 9% who apply to MIT are offered admission. I'd guess that the ones that get in aren't the ones who had to work hard for kind of scores listed above--they are the ones for whom those kind of high school achievements come easily, giving them time for the challenging projects and activities beyond the standard high school curriculum that made them stand out to the admissions people.

They now have to actually work hard for "regular" classes. Half of them find that their best effort lands them in the bottom half of the class. That is indeed one hell of a shock.

A relevant note is that MIT doesn't release class ranks or average GPAs or anything like that. Personally, I think it's good because while people might think they're below average, I'm ok with them not worrying about the particular number.

The self-confidence question: http://cl.ly/LQvB.

Compared to the other students: http://cl.ly/LR7c.

MIT is the anti-Lake Wobegon. None of the children are above average.

Dunning-Kruger effect maybe? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

>Next to the average MIT student, I think my accomplishments are impressive.

It's a subjective question and I don't think it's unreasonable that less than 20% of students have accomplishments that are more impressive than average.

That actually sounds kinda right. When people hear the phrase "above average" you probably interpret that to mean "noticeably better than most people" rather than "scored higher than the mean score".

It would depend on what the distribution of ability looked like, it's quite possible that over 50% of any given class have scores/ability that are grouped very closely together to make the differences in scores fairly trivial. Then you have an elite group that are effectively bunched around a significantly higher mean and also a struggling group noticeably at the bottom. Being a few marks off a B will still make you a C student.

This was certainly my experience at college, there was the "smart group" (which I wasn't in) and then there was everyone else.

I'm sure there is a better way of describing this with statistical terminology.

Perhaps this is a little bit of inside baseball, but LOL at the breakdown by Course number for "Academically, I would consider myself above average at MIT".

Course 18 in the lead followed by 8 5 and 6. The only thing that's changed in the past few decades is that 5 is getting a bit more uppity.

For those who don't know the numbers, 18, 8, 5, and 6 correspond to the sciences, math, physics, chemistry, and EECS, respectively.

http://xkcd.com/435/

For those of us, it would be thoughtful to reveal that in some way in the graphs. Do MIT students really memorize the correspondence of course numbers to subjects?

They do.

There's even an MIT "joke" that's just a string of course numbers followed by "out," indicating the stereotypical path of a struggling MIT student.

Out of curiosity, what's the string?

(Anything)->15->Out.

I suspect there are others.

Yes. It's number one on the '101 thugs to do before you graduate' list every year. It's actually not that hard. There's only 24 (including skipped numbers).

You do it without thinking about it.

Yes, it's not that hard when it's totally immersed in the school culture.

The buildings are all referred to by number on MIT campus too (Building 14), and while it takes a little while to get used to that it becomes second nature before long.

Actually: 18 = math 8 = physics 6 = eecs 5 = chemistry

That's what he said.

5 probably is just a factor of a small sample size. It's a small major.

There's also some weird things going on with 17 (political science) and I would speculate that it's due to the high rate of double majoring. AFAIK, there is only one 17 senior that isn't double majoring.

I admit to a serious case of greener-grass syndrome, but it seems to me that the environment at MIT would do quite a bit to lower stress. In my experience, the primary source of stress when doing what interests you is dealing with people who are either disinterested or otherwise generating friction within the group (not comprehending, communicating, etc). The less of those types, the more stress you get just from doing hard work– something MIT and at least a few others should be perfectly capable of handling ;)

People who do hard work tend to bite off more than they can chew, especially at MIT, and there is obviously a limit to how much you can handle. What MIT does right when it comes to stress relief is its housing system. You get to pick where you want to live, and you mostly get your choice (or you can move eventually). That way you can live within a supportive community. It really makes a difference during those hell weeks.

- MIT '11 MEng '12

+1. Columbia is the same way; you're surrounded by talented people who don't need to be stressed, but they choose to be. A lot of people try to do everything (which many are used to from high school) and most find that it's too much too late. After a while, though, you find about the right balance. For most people, this happens second semester senior year (:

The gender breakdowns are of particular fascination.

Yes. What does "Other" mean?

"Male/Female" genders are social constructs.

Had they asked something along the lines of "Sex: Man/Woman?" or allowed for an LGBTQ (etc.) answer, the answers would have been more useful. Of course, it is often a good idea to ask a question, only if you are looking for a way to use the information.

It's really sloppy for an MIT survey to half-ass a question like that.

I'm sure I'm getting some terminology wrong, but this is the gist of it.

Other could be somewhere on the spectrum between male and female without quite feeling comfortable calling yourself either. (Transgender, maybe even pre-op or post-op gender change.) Or it could mean asexual.

"Asexual" isn't the term you're looking for -- asexuality has no more to do with what gender you identify as than heterosexuality, bisexuality, etc. do. The concepts might be related for some people, but they aren't inherently so.

OK, what's the term for someone of no gender?

I believe it is simply "agender". I've also heard the word "neutrois" for a third gender neither male nor female, but that's not quite the same as no gender.

You are correct. Agender or nongendered are both fine (with me, anyway, but I think generally too).

MIT students don't know what stress is. Try Georgia Tech for that one. #2 least happy students in 2002.

hell week -> dead week -> finals week

I read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_week and don't see the point of this. It just seems like stressing people out due to poor coordination and time management.

Agreed. In this situation, the individual students have agency over their level of stress during that specific week. It's absurd to make generalizations about the school because a large number of individuals decide independent of one another and of the institution to waste time or to procrastinate.

Dead week? MIT has dead Thursday and dead Friday. There is no week.

It's quite the improvement from last year's Dead Friday (or last winter's dead Thursday with Friday finals.

Explain your downvote please. It's not at all helpful to me if you don't explain.

Seriously? Who are you? Why are you doing this?

My guess is, somebody at MIT

You are already downvoted as I type this. I downvote you too. You say some gross generalisation and throw out some statistic without backing.

Perfect. now his average is at 3.14! Good job, sir.

First post in 159 days to point out that my average is close to pi? Yep, you definitely go to MIT :)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/humor?s=t

Also, if you want to get really pedantic about the joke, I did provide backing. You can easily check that Georgia Tech was ranked #2 in 2002 by the Princeton Review for least unhappy students. As MIT was not ranked #1 in this particular category (and they probably don't want to be), it would appear my statement is both true and supported.

Perhaps, the respondents are just being humble. Most MIT students must know that they are clearly above-average students. However, being humble and always striving to improve is a good trait.

There does seem to be a trend of self-confidence improving year-over-year for undergraduates.

The comparison is to other MIT students, not to students in general; these results didn't surprise me in that light.

40% of urban planning majors pull an all-nighter at-least once a week.

What the hell is course 11??

"Urban Studies and Planning". I went to MIT and honestly have no idea what it actually is (beyond the web descriptions of it), and never interacted with anyone from the program -- it's a very tiny program which seems inherently fuzzy.

It's a tiny program, so I suspect a few people who responded really skewed the numbers.

The other half of the School of Architecture and Planning. Though among people I know, it seems everbody studies at the architecture half (course 4).

I'm looking on my iPhone and all the colors seem the same, how do I read this?

very cool, but from a usability stand point, you should show all the questions without the collapsing. Have to click 2 times for answers is not optimal.

Add to that: it should be possible to link to the results of a specific question. Also, there is no mention of the sample size of each group.

Really? I thought I saw one for the majors. Might be wrong.

edit: nope, you're right. I was remembering a different tech survey graphic.

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