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Comment by doublerabbit | Hacker News Reader

> Do not spit" signs

> Some tourists have complained about the ban, saying it should have been implemented on a weekday instead

These should not be a thing. What is it that makes folk feel so entitled?

"Lack of litter bins"; isn't an excuse. I've seen folk stand next to a litter bin, light up and then throw the cigarettes end to the ground.

You're literally standing next to a litter bin!

It should be common sense not to spit nor to litter. Spitting is the worse and I see it all the time here in the UK.

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It really bothers me when they spit on days where it is below freezing. It becomes a slip hazard on sidewalks.

What in hell? I haven’t seen or heard people spit on sidewalks other than some homeless people in ages.

In parts of Asia where people chew betel nut, of course that’s a different story -they put the old west custom of spitting tobacco chew to shame.

I've got a suspicion that it was more common a few decades ago. I saw a bit of that in China back in 2007 but I wouldn't be surprised if it's less of a thing now.

Have have you been to many countries in Asia recently?

Spitting is still super common in many cities, especially in India. I've had a few taxi drivers who would open their door periodically to spit on the ground (and no they weren't chewing anything).

Its so mindboggling. Littering wssnt even an option in my head as a child. Always carry your trash until you can properly dispose.

What the hell is wrong with people?

Same here. I find it hard to understand people who litter.

What I really don't understand is throwing litter from cars. You literally cannot find somewhere in your car to keep the litter until you get home?

I was recently traveling on a local bus near the Amazon and an indigenous family sitting in front of me were eating a local snack. When they finished, they opened the window and threw out the plastic wrappers.

At first I couldn't understand how someone who lives so close to nature could do something like that. But then I realized that when the parents were kids, those snacks were probably wrapped in banana leaves, not plastic, so discarding the leaves on the ground would have been perfectly natural thing to do.

Netherlands back in the day had signs saying:

"Laat niet, als dank voor het aangenaam verpoozen, den eigenaar van 't bosch de schillen en de doozen"

(old-ish Dutch spelling. From ~1930). Translated:

"Leave not as thanks for your pleasant stay, the owner of the forest the peels and the boxes". (google for pix, they're nice!)

Today, I'd be a happy camper if it were just peels & cardboard since both bio-degrade. Unlike most other litter (smoking-related and balloons among my 'favourites').

But it's definitely a cultural thing. Learn kids @ a young age, problem goes away.

> stand next to a litter bin, light up and then throw the cigarettes end to the ground.

If the litter bin doesn’t have an ashtray (like most in the US), maybe they were worried about starting a trash fire?

Its rooted in culture and how people are socialized to relate to public spaces and the people around them. Here’s Lee Kuan Yew talking about the same problem he faced in Singapore at first: https://medium.com/@barronqasem/the-moral-behind-lee-kuan-ye... (“The difficult part was getting the people to change their habits so that they behaved more like first world citizens, not like third world citizens spitting and littering all over the place.”).

I only really have experience with Americans and Bangladeshis, but in my experience Americans are Nazis about littering and recycling. I was talking with a law school professor once after class and dropped a diet coke bottle into the trash in front of her. Without missing a beat she reached into the trash bin to take it out and threw it into the recycling bin.

> in my experience Americans are Nazis about littering and recycling

I don't know about that. I've seen many a poorly sorted recycle bin in my life. Americans are definitely in the upper quartile, maybe even the upper decile, of the world as a whole. Among the developed world the country may be just about average.

I believe glass recycling is segregated by color in some countries in Europe. And they take that really seriously.

American recycling in a lot of major cities is single-stream - aka you put all recycling together and a central plant sorts it for you. More efficient, more accurate, and it encourages more people to recycle since it's extremely easy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-stream_recycling

> I believe glass recycling is segregated by color in some countries in Europe.

I guess my bar is on the floor lol.

> in my experience Americans are Nazis about littering and recycling.

America is a really big place.

My "progressive" American city has a lot of litter, because there is no money to clean it up or punish litterers.

I've been in quite a few American cities where recycling bins simply do not exist.

How do you reconcile you complaint about complaining about the tourist ban with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which says people have the right to freedom of movement within the borders of each state?

Nothing is stopping you from travelling within the borders. A village is nothing more than a province within the state.

If the law ruled: "you may not traverse through the state on Sundays"; then one could argue that is a breach of human rights.

However, the last time I checked, detours exist. Enabling you to bypass a village that may be closed on Sundays.

If you're a tourist and a village says no, why can't you obey that, why does that upset you?

What do you think that human rights rule is supposed to mean then? By your definition, the (more older) Chinese way of restricting mobility between provinces according to hukou would be OK because you can just bypass the forbidden provinces.

Does that Declaration give you an inalienable right to do anything you please? I doubt it. As the old saying goes, your freedom stops where someone else’s freedom starts.

Or in Seinfeld speak, “we live in a society!!!”

Have to consider others not just oneself. That’s the price of freedom and being responsible about it.

The alternative is a nanny state or anarchy.

India doesn't give a shit about that. They have restricted civil areas that require visitor clearance even for citizens.

I'm talking about doublerabbit, not India. Doublerabbit apparently doesn't like human rights, which is his right, but it's possible he actually holds contradictory opinions and doesn't realize it.

Or what you and others might believe are human rights are not believed by them to be human rights. Human rights are not, in fact, universal, otherwise there would be no disagreement; and either way, no human right is endless and unlimited especially when it impinges on another's rights.

Oh god what's wrong with you people? Can nobody just be direct and say "I don't accept the UDHR and I believe this other thing that's incompatible with it"? Or "I believe the meaning of that article of UDHR is this other thing and here's some reasons or examples".

I mean, that's not my position, I'm just explaining what some say when they think the UDHR is somehow actually universal.

Ask the US Army. /s

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