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Comment by voidUpdate | Hacker News Reader

If it should be front-page news, shouldn't it also be at the top of the article, rather than right at the bottom?

That was my first reaction too. A perfect fit for a cover image of a story. Also generally when referencing something within an article you want to display a figure before talking about it.

I thought it was quite effective. I read the whole thing in anticipation, and was still shocked by the graph.

Most people are not going to do that though :/

They should also plot the lines on actual temperature, instead of std. dev.

And expressing a number as some percentage more or less than another number is a great way to make it meaningless.

Like this?

https://climatereanalyzer.org/clim/sst_daily/?dm_id=nino3.4

Yes, I find that much more compelling as it clearly shows temperature.

Plotting it this way is just a shift and rescaling. As the other commenter already showed this will lead to a plot that looks pretty much the same in terms of difference relative to the past data. I think standard deviation makes sense here since we don’t really have an innate sense of what is a meaningful change in ocean surface temperature and the point is to show that we are already far beyond normal here.

There's probably an economic incentive to get visitors to read past the show more button?

There is no show more button and scroling to the graph takes less than half a second.

Oops you're right. I double-checked both from the hacker News app preview (Harmonic), and mobile Chrome. No "show more."

I must have confused it with another article, sorry.

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Communication about truth is also hard when against decades of industry, talk radio, right-wing media, and Republican propaganda lying about the climate. And humans, with very little scientific or critical thinking skills, felt comfort in the lie that "everything is ok!". Getting past a person's discomfort in order for them to accept truth is a high hill.

okay sure, but also put the fucking graph at the top come on

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Isn't that the documentary that cited a study saying all snow would disappear forever from Earth by the year 2013?

They had a scientist saying the Arctic could be "ice-free" in the summer by 2013. The new forecast is for that to happen sometime mid-century.

I'm not sure if you're being actively malicious or just a great example of how lies can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes, but your comment is a great example of what we're up against here.

If by "all snow would disappear forever from Earth" you meant "the Arctic could be seasonal-ice-free in the summer" by 2013, then, sure.

Please don't post flame bait on HN, including population-wide swipes like “the ignorance of the common human being”. The guidelines make it clear we're trying for something better here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

But in this particular case its true and the fundamental issue we have?

"Ignorance is the fundamental lack of knowledge, information, or awareness about a particular subject."

Its not even an evaluation of my side.

I'm fine with accepting that people have to work, are busy with other things, struggle in live etc.

But the sentence in itself is not bad? And it directly references op.

If it's true “in this particular case”, it's true of every other case too, and thus it's not really a substantive assertion. It's just a fact of life that affects everything, and pointing it out in this particular instance reeks of “shouting into the void”. Sure it might be cathartic but it doesn't move us any closer to a solution, and serves only to make us more miserable. In HN guidelines terms it can be seen as fulmination or curmudgeonliness, which we're specifically trying to avoid here.

It would be much better to think about novel ways of overcoming the issue and sharing that in the spirit of curious conversation, which is the primary ethos of HN.

I have spend so much time and energy in the last 6 years talking about it, trying to do stuff, isn't it sometimes valid to just respond like this to at least have a short outlet?

After all i didn't create an original comment, i leveraged a response instead.

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. It's a hallmark of a low-effort comment that it is not even terminated with a period, and this is the case with many of your comments.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

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