Wii U's restrictive DRM is a baffling throwback | Hacker News Reader

Wii U's restrictive DRM is a baffling throwback

arstechnica.com

60 pointsbane33 comments

I've bought mario 64 and ocarina of time 3 times each. (N64, ds systems, and on the wii.) My wii disc drive broke 6 months ago. I tried to repair it, and I failed, as i broke the connection of the data ribbon to the disc drive. This faulty repair to the disc drive then made virtual console games unplayable, even though they make no use of the disc drive.

Nintendo won't transfer my purchases to new hardware, whereas my physical copies of the game all still work the same as the day I bought them. I could pay Nintendo 80 dollars to repair my drive to recover ~150 dollars worth of downloaded games.

I'm not buying these games for a fourth time, and I do not recommend buying any downloadable products from Nintendo.

Well, considering that you legally own the titles you could look into emulating them. Homebrew on the Wii is pretty advanced right now and you could use that to retrieve ROMs for all your titles and still play them.

Obviously, that doesn't say anything good about Nintendo but I'm just trying to solve a pain point for you.

Also, 3DS games on the eShop in Europe have ridiculous prices. A game in the US costs $39.99 (in the eShop) whereas the UK price is GBP 39.99 ~ $64! UK 3DS users can use the Ireland eShop (same language games but Euro prices) to get their games for around $57. Still VERY abusive of Nintendo! :(

>Homebrew on the Wii is pretty advanced right now and you could use that to retrieve ROMs for all your titles and still play them.

Or simply fetch them from Piratebay.

Obligatory XKCD: http://xkcd.com/488/

Personally, I quite like nintendo's hardware and own both a Wii and a DS. But I bought them only after they became fully freedom-compliant and I plan to do the same with the current generation - the WiiU and 3DS. They're just games. No sense giving up my liberties for a console.

My mario 64 cart has 120 stars (yes by me) and is autographed by Miyamoto. I waited in line all night to get my Wii. When its drive crapped out I bought a shiny new black one. I was honestly expecting to be able to play all the virtual console games on it. I used to have fun with my kids playing all the old games on the Wii. Now we don't play them.

I hadn't even realized it till I read this post. Subtly, subconsciously, Nintendo turned me off gaming on the Wii. I wasn't mad or angry. I recall now seeing the virtual console and thinking "I could buy this again ... nah maybe later". When I thought of buying a new game, instead of a happy feeling, the feeling I got was how I felt when I was thinking about buying the games I had on my old Wii for the second time: "nah maybe later". And later never came.

Haven't bought a Wii U.

And yes, it is fucking insane that as a parent, I can't set up an account, online, and buy games and activate consoles. There is no excuse Nintendo. I have iTunes. I have Amazon Instant Video. I have Netflix. This is how you sell to me now, and it will be how you sell to my kids. My 9yo has an iPhone and that's what she plays games on. COPPA is no excuse. My kids watch Netflix all day, but who signed up for it? Madness.

Steam has been around for how many years now?

They've effectively created a DRM system that people like.

Copying them is not a technical challenge, and as far as I know there's nothing proprietary about it.

Why other platforms like WiiU don't adopt this strategy baffles me.

With Steam Big Picture coming into play, and half decent PCs costing around $300 that can play most games, if I get a TV, I'll just buy a $350+ HTPC. It will work with all video formats at high bitrates, play blu-rays, work with ALL of the streaming video services in one box, search the internet quickly, play all of my personal media and play video games as good as any console. Steam is just a few steps away from being the console replacement app and shipping a branded steam box and the masses would have something that's relatively easy to use. For the kids that love minecraft and other indie games, it would be perfect.

It will also work easily as a NAS and a print server. It would replace about 3/4 different TV devices and cover all of the bases.

There's a great guide on The Verge forums about building a Steam Box on the cheap: http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/30/3706718/forget-the-ps4-an...

For all those gamers out there who are familiar with building their own gaming PCs, the Steam Box future is already here. There's currently a huge sale on Steam for games that use controllers. You can make it happen today.

And the value of having a fully functional HTPC cannot be overstated. You can watch any content you want, no compromises. YouTube, Netflix, Hulu, torrents, Usenet, it's all supported.

Allow me to again share the writeup I did on my Steam Box

http://gist.io/4199804

w1ntermute, I think you've already seen this, but anyway... :)

As mahyarm mentions, NAS work just fine with an HTPC- I've actually installed several games to my NAS via iSCSI.

Incidentally, are you the wintermute that was involved in DS homebrew way back when? (I recently started reading HN again and I keep seeing you pop up).

Nope, never done DS homebrew (or even had a Nintendo handheld since the GBA).

Very nice guide. But I wouldn't build a Steam Box. There's something to be said about consoles and how they provide developers with one standardized specification that they can target over a span of 6+ years that enables them to optimize games so they run smoothly while squeezing out every last drop of power the console has to offer. Gaming PCs lack this standardization that consoles enjoy. Sure, there's infinite flexibility with what you're able to do with a PC -- such as using it as a HTPC -- but over time, a Steam Box built today won't be able to play the latest games that 2017 has to offer with any grace, while the PS3 will be running a title like "The Last of Us" nearly seven years after the console's introduction. Sure, you could always upgrade the graphics card, CPU, HD, and other components, but now you've already overpaid what you would have had you bought a PS4/Xbox 720.

Just something to keep in mind for anyone who decides to build a Steam Box in hopes that is can replace a console.

It doesn't sound like you're the target market then. The Steam Box (at least in its current form) is targeted at PC gamers, who don't expect to have a single, static hardware platform that exists for a half-decade or more. This is more about taking what's great about PC gaming (the all-digital distribution system, customizability/flexibility of hardware, etc.) and bringing it to a living room, console-style gaming experience.

Yeah, but in 2017 your console games will completely suck versus what you will have your PC-Steam Box if you renew it every 2-3 years or so. And you will have access to literally thousands on games on it, while your PS4-Xbox720 will still be hard at work building such a library of titles. And online play is free on Steam (versus 50 dollars a year on Xbox), games are cheaper too and regularly on sale for a fraction of the original price - overall you are SAVING by playing on PC if you play many games. It only makes sense to own a console if you 1) want specific, exclusive titles 2) do not play many games at all (and then it becomes more economical than a PC).

That's why true hardcore gamers will remain on the PC no matter what consoles they bring on the market: best graphics, largest choice, and best use of your money is on PC.

Nintendo might just be the one game company that can get away with inane DRM clauses because of their ridiculously strong IP (read: exclusive 1st party games and iconic characters).

In a way they're like Disney.

But even Disney is signing deals with Netflix and buying star wars.

As a business, making business decisions, I don't know what Nintendo is thinking.

It's a problem all across Japan: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-06/japans-fear-...

That is quite sad, the combination of a disproportionately older population, with one that is culturally risk-averse is a recipe for stagnation.

Yeah, the culture is fascinating and they have so many basic urban problems that we can't solve in America down pat (public transportation, crime, and poverty, to name a few), but economically they just don't have that spark, and their educational system is an outdated waste of time that does little other than prepare students for standardized tests via rote memorization.

I don't know, maybe it's because life is so safe there that you don't see the desire to innovate that you see in America.

JP is defo an interesting place for many reasons, but I would say that they did not 'solve' those issues so much as they were forced on to them. Little land means you are forced to make good land use, thus preference for trains over cars. Poverty is a grave issue in Japan. Lots of elderly crime --the fastest growing crime, is being attributed by some to elderly poverty. Yes, crime in general is relatively low. No argument there.

But their clock is ticking. Low birthrate combined with a distaste for immigration along with a patriarchal society (relatively low involvement by women in the workforce) is a recipe for economic decline.

My favorite pet peeve is how excited people find it that the Japan train operators will provide you with a tardiness note if they are over a minute late. People think "wow, the punctuality". I think "wow, what a horrible atmosphere where you have to account for being a minute late to the office" (while at the same time having to while away time at the office if the boss remains behind afterhours, else be labelled as being "different".

> Poverty is a grave issue in Japan.

When compared to America, this is a grave exaggeration. Whatever poverty you might see in Japan, it doesn't come close to matching the utter hell that many urban Americans live in at this very moment.

The low birthrate has a lot of reasons behind it, gender discrimination in the workplace being one. Others include the high cost of education and a negative outlook on the future for any potential children.

Regarding the delay certificate （電車遅延証明書）, they're also used in Germany, where they're called "Bescheinigung über Zugverspätung" ("certificate about train delay").

I would not say it's a grave exaggeration. There are differences. Poverty is not something one shows overtly, in Japan. One must, under all possibility, show social dignity. This means you don't panhandle, you don't push carts picking up recyclables, etc. There is a lot more poverty than one would think there was if one's assessment consists of just walking down the alleways or riverbanks.

See what the Economist has to say http://www.economist.com/node/21549003

And Asia Times [it's even more pronounced, now, 7 years later] http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/GB11Dh01.html

Well this article is pretty bad...

Stock brokerages: There are so many stories of Japanese bank salesmen pushing really bad investment products / investment advice to elderly people who have no idea about securities, that the industry somewhat rightfully has a reputation for defrauding people. People are absolutely right to stay away from such salesmen.

Sporting world: Bunting and such is actually a pretty good strategy -- actually, it's numerically the riskier strategy since the moneyball style "don't steal bases, take walks, work the count" type game is statistically safer.

Politics: The LDP is returning to power b/c the Democratic party is incompetent. These people make George W. look like a genius.

That being said, JASRAC (Japan's RIAA-like copyright enforcing agency) might just be worse than its western counterparts w.r.t. getting backwards legislation passed (illegal downloading is now a crime in Japan, not just uploading)

> People are absolutely right to stay away from such salesmen.

Which is mentioned halfway through the article, actually.

> Bunting and such is actually a pretty good strategy

I don't think the point was which strategy is better, it's just that bunting is another (more easily understandable to the layman?) example of how the Japanese are risk-averse.

The ultimate point was that Japan-levels of risk aversity lead to severe economic problems.

In general I'm the last person to argue that Japan is anything but risk-averse, but this article just seemed to be poorly put together :(

The article doesn't show much understanding of Nintendo's general trajectory. They've been almost determined to explore the entire spectrum of copy protection, in order of least to most effective. The psychological impact on them has been to increase the paranoia factor in step with this (they're even encrypting saved game content.)

I can't really blame them either. It's not optimal and it sucks, but they seem to be approaching working solution which is something they need (in order to sell licenses if nothing else.)

I'm just going to put this out there. Wii U has been a huge disappointment.

Actually thats a little unfair, I never had high expectations from Wii U to begin with.

What don't you like about it? I find playing the new Mario game really fun, and Nintendo Land is a big hit as far as group gaming goes.

Other than the eShop problems (the DRM, the silly way to transfer games from the Wii) I really like the console.

I find people who expected- no, wanted- something to suck, will be predisposed to think it sucks until rigorously proven otherwise.

This adds very little in the way of thoughtful, substantial conversation. Can you elaborate on exactly why you're disappointed? If it's for the same reason as the submission, do you have anything to expound on?

I really don't understand the Wii U - the peripheral is basically a gimmick considering how much it weighs and the 3 hour battery life.

Nintendo knows they are going to get fucked in mobile from Android/iPhone games.

What are they going to do? What can they do? I mean aside from creating their own gamephone line, I don't think there is anywhere for them to escape.

I was disappointed that I couldn't play old Wii Virtual Console on the new Wii Touch Screen. You can't even navigate to any of your old games without using using a Wiimote. Why they couldn't put those games in along with the Wii U menu is baffling. Maybe I shouldn't expect it, but it's annoying as heck.

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