> to force people out of cars.
All that stuff following is also nonsense.
“They” don’t want people out of cars, the companies want that sweet sweet revenue stream from vacuuming up data. That’s all this is
Examples include some version of "They want us to act like slaves" or "They want to control our minds".
More often than not the simplest explanation is short-sighted profit motive, or institutional dysfunction, or multiple parties with conflicting motivations with no central agenda. It's far less likely to be a grand coordinated conspiracy.
What is their motive for wanting to "force people out of cars"?
Here:
Elmar Altvater
Ian Angus
Rudolph Bahro
Adam Bandt
Hugo Blanco
Murray Bookchin
Jabari Brisport
Walt Brown
Paul Burkett
Max Chandler-Mather
Barry Commoner
Jeremy Corbyn
Pat Devine
Jutta Ditfurth
Sabrina Fernandes
John Bellamy Foster
Alberto Garzón
André Gorz
Ramachandra Guha
Donna Haraway
Howie Hawkins
Jason Hickel
Joan Herrera i Torres
Naomi Klein
Mark Carney
Joel Kovel
Dimitri Lascaris
Enrique Leff
Michael Löwy
Caroline Lucas
Andreas Malm
David McReynolds
Jean-Luc Mélenchon
Steven Guilbeault
Chico Mendes
Luka Mesec
George Monbiot
William Morris
Abdullah Öcalan
James O'Connor
David Orton
Simon Pirani
Zack Polanski
Lee Rhiannon
Raül Romeva
Manuel Sacristán
Ariel Salleh
Joan Saura
Pernille Skipper
Jill Stein
Chlöe Swarbrick
Alan Thornett
Peter Tatchell
Alex Tyrrell
Derek Wall
Raymond Williams
Gerrard Winstanley
Avi Lewis
On the other hand, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-socialism#Critique_of_actu... says:
> Kovel believes that the forms of 'actually existing socialism' consisted of "public ownership of the means of production", rather than meeting "the true definition" of socialism as "a free association of producers", with the Party-State bureaucracy acting as the "alienating substitute 'public'".[130]
and in general, I cannot find any examples of eco-socialists making the claims, or holding the beliefs, you're attributing to them. Eco-socialists are not, near as I can tell, a fan of the state, nor "government ownership".
Just because you can join facts together to form a narrative, that does not make the narrative true.
The narrative you've presented is not supported by the sources you've cited (e.g. the eco-socialism Wikipedia article, which appears to contradict it). You have not given me any reason to believe it, and I'm not confident that you've ever received a good reason yourself.
Every level of government, the World Economic Forum and every other organization that seeks to mandate digital currencies, mandate digital IDs, impose "chat control" and eliminate all privacy. You have to have your head buried deep, deep in the sand to think this is some sort of conspiracy. It is all happening right out in the open.
None of this has anything to do with a purported green movement that seeks to end private ownership of cars. Modern cars are easy to track, for starters.
Modern cars allow autonomy of movement, even if you are tracked (except of course those with the mandatory kill switches which our benevolent overlords have also ordered be installed).
https://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_A_Blueprint_for_Digital_Id...
https://intelligence.weforum.org/topics/a1G0X000005JJGcUAO
https://www.weforum.org/communities/digital-currency-governa...
They aren't suborning themselves to anyone. The organization is comprised of those powerful people, who are the ones coming up with the agenda and hoisting it upon the rest of us.
Given that electric vehicles including cars, busses and trains all exist, can you explain what relationship exists between the notion of private property ownership (notably cars) and "the green movement"? It is not clear to me why a global environmentalist cabal would seek to end private ownership of electric cars, which have more or less the same drawbacks as electric busses or trains.
Furthermore:
As far as I can tell, the following groups are both wealthy and powerful, and have a financial interest in opposing the end of fossil fuels and/or the end of private property:
- big oil
- coal
- auto manufacturers
- major banks (because they finance loans, including auto loans)
- the governments of oil-rich nations like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Venezuela, Canada (Alberta, mostly), Russia, Iran, etc.
Can you also explain where the "green movement" is getting its funding and lobbying to not only resist but (according to you) completely overcome the influence of the above groups?
To answer your second question, I don’t think it’s accurate to assume auto manufacturers have a financial interest in opposing the end of fossil fuels.
Okay, and where are they getting their political clout and funding? I believe in following the money. Where does the money come from?
>I don’t think it’s accurate to assume auto manufacturers have a financial interest in opposing the end of fossil fuels.
Auto manufacturers certainly have a financial interest in private automobile ownership, don't you think?
Financial interest in private automobile ownership sure, but not opposing the end of fossil fuels. I didn’t claim they’re completely aligned, the real world is complex.
Because money is power, are you new?
You claimed that some unspecified "They" are attempting to force a socialist utopia/dystopia upon us, and that "They" are seeking to end private ownership because socialism. You seem to be unable to articulate who "They" are, from where "They" derive their power, or who is funding "Them".
>If they’re in power or have influence, it could largely be a grassroots movement and it doesn’t matter?
Grassroots movements quite simply do not have power or influence unless either:
1. they're well-funded, in which case see my previous point. Where does that money come from? or
2. they're supported by a significant majority of the public, in which case it makes no sense to refer to "They" in such a way as to insinuate there is a small minority of powerful figures forcing these issues upon an unwitting or unwilling public. If the movement enjoys broad popular support (unlikely!), then there is no conspiracy and you simply have a minority opinion. In that case, deal with it.
I'm not going to respond to your sealioning. Either do the bare minimum research, or stop participating in this manner.
Where I live (city in the PNW), bike lanes see heavy use year-round.
But you see bicycles on the bike lanes, lots of bicycles. When it's summer time and when it's not raining.
Otherwise the people are all in their cars.
Amsterdam is a different kettle of fish entirely. That's what I'd call "heavy."