Hacker News Reader

Comment by weberer | Hacker News Reader

>It's not hard to install AC in Europe

Its orders of magnitude harder. When I lived in the USA, I could just pick up a $200 window unit and have it installed within minutes. Every single person had air conditioning. Now I live in Finland where the windows are the worst designed windows I've ever seen. They are thin, tall windows that open vertically on hinges like doors. So rain gets in, and its impossible to install a window AC or even a box fan. You're forced to either install a mini split ($1000+) or central air. And neither options are available for renters. Really, the #1 priority should be trying to bring American style sliding windows to Europe. Then everything else can fall into place downstream of that.

View on HN

That's exactly what I wrote though. You CAN install a normal split. You are blocked because as a renter you don't have the power to.

My point is that we are not in an AC crisis, we just need to change the laws so that owners are forced to provide, however they want, summer comfort in the same way they must provide winter comfort.

Unlike energy autonomy, green transition, or defense issues, the "AC issue" is actually easy to tackle for governments and I'm betting it will happen pretty soon because that's an easy win that costs nothing to governments and governments loves popular measures that cost nothing and and give them the good role.

> You are blocked because as a renter you don't have the power to.

And his point is that in most apartments in the US, you are not blocked because you're a renter.

>you are not blocked because you're a renter.

You are wrong. Nothing in the US stops a landlord from preventing you from installing an AC and plenty do, for any reason they want.

My previous US apartment banned window mount air conditioners. I was stuck with a "mobile" AC unit that could barely handle a little humidity. Even someone in a "Historic" property in Europe that isn't allowed to touch anything would have that option as well.

> You are wrong. Nothing in the US stops a landlord from preventing you from installing an AC and plenty do, for any reason they want.

In my state, they cannot. I legally have the right to install a window AC unit as long as I'm not doing any damage or violating a safety guideline.

I just moved to Portugal and had zero issues installing a portable unit to help me survive the heatwave. For the hinged windows you just grab an installation kit that works with them and you're good to go. The only problem is that the portable AC I got is not a window unit (& it's single-hose), but I wanted to have it before the heatwave started and don't care too much about few percentage points in lost efficiency as long as it keeps me and my pets alive. Total cost was €320 with the installation kit for a 12000BTU unit.

I'm actually surprised you were fine with single-hose. I've never seen a single-hose portable A/C unit that did an adequate job. AIUC, the laws of physics make that rather difficult. In fact I've sometimes seen them actively make things worse. Whereas I have seen dual-hose do an adequate job.

Also note, "survive" is a rather low bar. We're talking about encouraging some of the world's top researchers to move from the US across the ocean. I'm admittedly not in their shoes, but I imagine mere survival isn't their criterion.

I had single-hose both when I lived in USA and now, and didn't have any issues with it cooling down the room I wanted to have cooled down. My bar is "survival of my pets" because rabbits supposedly can't handle more than 25C. Their room stayed well below that temperature both in USA (Seattle suburbs, west-facing in a house that wasn't insulated) and now in Portugal.

Ive seen a few single hose AC units that worked okay. I still don't understand why they exist though. The window installment at its minimum span is still putting the ends quite far apart and would increase efficiency.

Unfortunately, I could not find a dual-hose unit off-the-shelf in any of the local stores and didn't have any hopes of getting it in time if I ordered it online.

Can sliding windows be properly insulated? In general cold is a bigger deal in Europe than warmth, and will continue to be so.

German style tilting windows close as tightly as the regular (or door-like as you say) do. UK has windows sliding up, but is also famous for being drafty as the windows are never tight. I suppose good sliding windows can exist though?

I have myself pondered the problem with regular windows and a movable AC. My apartment has old school 4-pane windows with 2 layers both having their own window handles, so 8 independent small windows for each opening. They do look great in an old building but I don't see any reasonable way to set up AC with these. Thankfully no need yet as the apartment has never reached 30C inside, but we'll see what the future brings.

The old sliding windows were shit, but the modern ones are pretty good.

> Can sliding windows be properly insulated?

Yes. Beyond that, if they didn't work they wouldn't be used. Continental climates get much colder than pretty much anywhere in Europe, outside of a select few areas.

> In general cold is a bigger deal in Europe than warmth, and will continue to be so.

Masonry is a bad match for cold. The structure acts as a high velocity heat conduit and the earth eats all the heat you produce. Europe's winters (in general) are extremely mild, arguably even more so than its summers.

> Yes. Beyond that, if they didn't work they wouldn't be used.

My usual experience from London was extremely leaky single pane sliding windows, that's why the question. To be fair, that air flow was probably the only saving grace against mold in those buildings.

You can just buy plastic that you attach to the frame around the window with a hole for the hose. Its reasonable air tight, but we typically get air from outside for ventilation anyway.

My house in the US has windows like that. I have a cut and painted board to replace the window with in the summer because of it. I hate these windows because of that though.

Sliding windows are terrible though. Why would you want those?

No they're not. They're actually the best window form factor. Why would you not want them.

You can't clean them without leaning dangerously outside for one.

Modern ones allow you to tilt them in for cleaning. This video demonstrates it well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyM7hI5vE2A

Reply on news.ycombinator.com