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Comment by nostromo | Hacker News Reader

The ironic ending of the blog post is interesting. He's running Ubuntu... on a MacBook Pro.

Even if you hate the software and all things iOS, it's hard to find a better designed laptop.

I use a Macbook Pro for work and while the hardware may be pleasant to look at, it's a pain to use. The keyboard is set entirely too close to the screen, meaning I can't use it comfortably for very long without an external screen and/or keyboard, the nice 90 degree angles along the edges mean that if I can using it I quickly get marks in my wrists from it (and occasionally have hands start to go to sleep, a really bad sign), the touchpad is placed to where it's difficult to keep straight wrists/proper keyboard usage without touching the touchpad. But is sure does look pretty.

I had a Lenovo T60 for quite a while and, while it looked like a cheap piece of plastic, it was wonderfully durable, keyboard was placed in a good spot, the positioning of the buttons/touchpad were all just right. Just because it looks nice does not make something well-designed, and I have yet to use an Apple device that I would consider anywhere close to ergonomic friendly (the iPod nano being the closest as you only really used 2 "buttons" on the circle, pause/play and next).

I disagree. I own a Lenovo Thinkpad x220. It's perfect (for me).

Its keyboard is reason alone that it beats the MacBook Pro.

On top of that, I bought it back in 2011 for around 960 USD (converted). The configuration included an i5-2520M, 8GB of RAM, 320GB HDD, an 80GB m-SATA SSD and an upgrade to a 3-year on-site warranty.

Same here. I'm typing this on a macbook pro that I'm currently sucking data off onto my x220 running Arch. Similar setup. That msata bay rocks with an SSD in it, eh?

FWIW, specs say 8gb max but I've got 16gb ticking away in it nicely. You're probably aware of that but worth posting here for others if they are interested. One of the best laptop keyboards I've used.

If I have to buy another laptop again, it'll be a Thinkpad. Nice to hear its solid.

I switched about 3 years back. I was using PB12 then and PowerPC was already on its way out. I figured that if I have to get new software anyway, I may switch the platforms as well.

The Thinkpad T400 I got is still a good machine, 3 years later. So good, that my brother bought himself Thinkpad X230 and is satisfied as well.

I hear it. I'm a stickler for comfort and design, so I'll be going for the thinnest, slabbiest, least-dent-prone thinkpad I can find when the time comes. I really do insist on the slab - i.e. as few indentations as possible - approach, so I hope its considered necessary, somewhere in the future, by Thinkpad designers ..

I really love my work thinkpad, except I'm not a big fan of trackpoints, and the touchpad is truly hateful. For work that's fine because I'm always docked, but I probably wouldn't consider them for personal use for that reason alone.

Have you tried changing the stock rubber cap to the vastly more ergonomic concave model? It gives you much finer control, effortlessly. It's a popular aftermarket part available for a couple dollars on auction sites.

I haven't, actually - thanks, I'll take a look.

I'm very attached to really good, big touchpads though - losing gesture support is hard!

I suspect trackpad vs trackpoint is one of those whichever you get used to first things. I use a USB thinkpad keyboard for my desk and have multiple times went hours before noticing my mouse was not plugged in. It somehow psychologically maps 1:1 with a mouse.

"Apple, I am done with you! I shall throw out this $2000 laptop, and purchase a Thinkpad, because I cannot see any way to get any more use out of the hardware I have now!"

Sell it before it depreciates further, buy a ThinkPad with half the change and go on holiday for a couple of days?

"Even if you hate the software and all things iOS, it's hard to find a better designed laptop."

I think this was the case for most of the 2000's, and a big reason my last few laptops have been Macs -- but I'm not so sure it's that way any more. For a long time, the big PC OEM's seemed to view hardware specs as the main difference people would buy a $1500 laptop over a $500 one, so they just stuck better hardware inside the $500 shell. Nowadays I think they've caught on that people pay attention to design and overall build quality.

It might still be hard to find a better designed laptop, but I think the PC OEM's are finally starting to make some that can at least compete.

> For the first time in as long as I can remember, I know my next laptop and phone will not have a Apple logo on it.

I've been trying to kick the Apple habit since I got my first tiBook, which was the _revelation_ for me at the time, that Apple of all people were producing the Unix laptop, and also making the physicality of the thing badass.

So, in my effort to stay true to my Unix'ish roots, I've gotten a Motorola Lapdock real cheap, its at least as comfy as a macbook Air, and I'm plugging in things like .. raspberryPi, MK802/808 Android or Ubuntu sticks, my desktop 'slab PC', and so on. I think I'm close to kicking the habit - they /really/ lost me at the drop of the MacbookPro17" .. my existing one will run into the ground, and I will soon put Linux on it.

In the meantime, I would suggest that those looking for an alternative to the sexy nature of the hardware aspect, albeit with a little extra effort, switching to Ubuntu-on-a-Stick is really a pleasant treat.

> they /really/ lost me at the drop of the MacbookPro17"

I feel your pain! It was the only laptop with enough screen real estate and power to work as a desktop on the road.

But lately with the increasingly draconian carry-on restrictions I've downsized my luggage, and turns out my MPB17 just barely doesn't fit in a 16x13x7 bag (that fits in the new commuter jet regs). The MBPr15 fits, has more screen res, and is lighter. So I had been planning an upgrade. If the new MBPr13 had dual graphics I'd be willing to even go with that as it would fit in my puddle jumper bag's outside pocket.

But... This past year the outsized MBP17 had me trying out my iPad 3 instead, and now I'm not sure I need a laptop for travel at all.

Yeah I'm closely watching the tablet space, if I can get a 17" tablet with ultra-high res, plug in a PC-on-a-stick, and use a keyboard with it, I'll have my development machine again. I just can't really sit there for long on a 15" screen, its not wide-view enough for my liking .. and the MBP17" was, ultimately, my main machine. Oh well.

Which Lapdock? The 500?

I'm using the Lapdock Atrix, but yeah, same thing as the 500 basically. I really think Lapdock+PC-On-Stick is my new direction, away from the Apple Hegemony. It is simply amazing being able to carry my Ubuntu workstation with me in my pocket, plug into big screen/&etc., or use the lapdock on train rides (typical laptop use case for me personally) to do extra work. Its truly neat. I hope it happens mainstream..

Thank you for your reply.

>I really think Lapdock+PC-On-Stick is my new direction

Ideally an ARM-based PC-On-Stick or one with a beefier Intel or AMD processor?

(I am aware that the second option cannot be powered over the USB connection.)

Also, how does the video get from the PC-On-Stick to the Lapdock's display? does it go over a USB connection and then through DisplayLink hardware?

As long as things keep going multi-core, ARM is going to be just fine for me. x86 compatability not such a need.. We've got Linode for that. ;)

Most PC-on-Sticks' use HDMI video output. I have a small dodgy cable rig to go from HDMI out to Lapdock HDMI in, but thats just because: Motorola. It could be quite feasible that Lapdock clones will arrive soon, with standard connectors..

The screen on your Lapdock is 11.6 inches, innit?

Yup. I'd be sure happy to find a 17" version one day. ;)

I actually didn't mind OSX too much, but the using my work provided MBP was an experience in frustration. The usability was horrible compared to my thinkpad, and I ended up leaving it docked as a desktop mostly.

Every corner of the MBP is rounded except the edge that your wrists actually come into contact with, which are sharp and leave painful marks. The trackpad lacked actual "mouse buttons" which made a simple task like highlighting and right clicking on text a finger dexterity test. The keyboard feels cheap and slow. Most of all, I miss my trackpoint. :)

For actual usability, it seems to me ThinkPad is a close to laptop perfection as you can get. I replaced my 2007 TP (Windows XP) with a new one this year (Ubuntu). If apple sold OSX for non-apple hardware I'd probably be running that instead of linux.

If your wrists are in contact with the front edge, your desk is probably too high and you might be much more comfortable at a lower height (even beyond the sharp-edge issue, your shoulders may thank you).

Or to quote Steve Jobs, "you're holding it wrong." ;-)

A well-designed laptop which is heading toward zero upgradeablility.

Zero upgradeability (in the sense of zero need to upgrade: does not break, is powerful enough) is a good sign of well designed.

So the SSD is going to work forever? Because that is what I am afraid of.

Upgradeability != repairability.

Aside from PCMCIA/ExpressCard upgrades, which are useless nowadays thanks to USB2/3, the only upgrades available to laptops are memory + disk. RAM is cheap enough where companies can toss in 8gb (soon, 16gb) without a second thought, which is more than enough for probably 99% of the customer base for as long as the laptop is in service.

That leaves the disk drive as the one non-upgradable part. I imagine part of the reason for this is the (relative) bulkiness of the 2.5" SSD form factor. Are there any other standardized sizes that could work in a rMBP form factor? 1.8" maybe? The 11" MBA may have problems fitting it, but a swappable 1.8" SSD on the larger models would be quite nice.

mSATA is the standard for tiny SSDs.

He's using a Macbook because he already has one. He's not going to buy another one.

It's the first time he's been happy with an OS rather than OS X, so it would make sense that he wouldn't swap out the hardware before making sure he can live without OS X (seeing as OS X is hard to run without Apple hardware).

See, my only thought at that was "Really? Ubuntu? C'mon, pick a better Linux Distro!"

As much as I love the idea behind Ubuntu, it really cannot compare to OS X (or, for development, a more nerd-centric Linux distro like Arch)

I gave up on arch after six or seven hours trying to get my sound card, pulseaudio and skype to work together.

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