Nintendo announces new product revisions in Europe with replaceable batteries | Hacker News Reader

Nintendo announces new product revisions in Europe with replaceable batteries

nintendo.com

367 pointsakyuu219 comments

"There is no difference in functionality between current products and revised products containing user-replaceable batteries."

So there was nothing "limiting" them from making it already with user-replaceable batteries, they just didn't care enough until EU forced them (like all the smartphone brands). Love EU.

Except for an up-to-16% reduction in capacity, and slightly increased weight, depending on the product.

The 16% is for the Pro Controller though, to be fair.

The Switch 2 itself loses 1% of battery capacity, most other products none at all.

Your framing seems a bit selective to the point of being misleading.

16% less battery life in a controller is pretty significant!

Agreed, that one's not great. But it seems to be the only product that has serious trade-offs.

Yes but it's limited to only the Nintendo Switch 2 Pro Controller.

The basic Joy-cons have no change to their battery capacity.

It's because they're basically already using user replaceable batteries, to the point I'm not sure what the SKU revision will actually do. My best guess is they won't be gluing the battery down any more? Otherwise there's not anything I can see they would need to change.

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Joy-Con+Battery+Replacement/113...

I wonder if it will feel significant. I can't remember being limited by the controller battery. The runtime on a single charge is probably still going to be measured in weeks, and at that scale I feel like it doesn't really matter.

Glad to hear, because that's how much a battery will degrade by itself in 1 to 2 years if you're average lucky.

At least if you're a heavy gamer like that you can pop a new battery in quickly when the old dies, instead of getting tethered with a cumbersome cable.

does it matter for coach gaming if I can have spare batteries and just swap them. That's honestly sounds better then increased life with only cable recharge

seeing as the product itself already advertises that it's best to not charge it to 100% feel like nothing's being lost here no matter how one tries to spin it

You still lose capacity with a smaller battery, even if you don't charge it to 100%.

You mean an up-to-5% increase in capacity, and slightly decreased weight, depending on the product?

The truth is that the product with the 16% reduced capacity (Switch 2 Pro controller) is 7g lighter and the one with the 5% increased capacity (Gamecube controller) is 5g heavier.

Besides those two, the general idea is that the capacity is the same with 2-3% extra weight.

Some of these are no change because the existing versions already have pretty user replacement friendly batteries. The JoyCons for example already use the hard sided cells with plugs so I'm not sure what the change will actually amount to. If I had to guess it's maybe to change the glue or method of holding the battery in place to satisfy the ease of replacement requirements.

How do those stats look 5 years later, when one is stuck with a degraded battery, and the other has had an easy battery swap?

Important to understand non-functional requirements (NFR). They’re saying the core features are the same. They are not saying they’re identical in weight, repair cost, water/dust resistance, battery lifetime, or cost.

It's not that they didn't care, it's that they did care in the wrong way. A non-replacable battery means people will be more likely to buy a whole new device if (when) the battery fails.

My take is they didn't optimize for something that a small percentage of users would have problems with.

It's not really a small percentage of users. All users will have trouble with the battery - eventually. My DS4s ran out of battery life in about three years of usage; I still have one of them that I use wired with my PC, but I absolutely cannot use it wireless. Likewise with my DS5s - one of them barely held a charge 2-3 years in. I'm sure with good battery management you can extend the lifespan to be closer to 5-6 years, like my M1 MBP from 2021 that still has a 9+h battery life (though down from 12 as I remember), but that only keeps them going for a little longer. It's just a fact of how Li-ion batteries work that they will lose their capacity eventually.

E: DS4 = DualShock 4, DS5 = DualSense; these are the standard PlayStation controllers for the PS4 and the PS5 respectively.

I think it's fair to object to the point above on the basis that users have very little knowledge of how quickly batteries will fail and thus the cost of that failure is hidden from the market. It takes years or decades for consumer usage of devices to give new purchasers a fair picture of the hardware difficulties surrounding the battery - and, by then, there's a newer model with different qualities on the market.

A good number of users will never hit troubles with their battery since electronic devices are treated rather cavalierly and replaced before those defects will surface, so I object to the wording that all users will hit that - but I still think it's clearly in the best interests of the majority of consumers to bargain for better lifetime extension support.

Props for using the Apple wording, I guess.

I don't understand why battery failure is a "when". The only batteries I've ever had fail in rechargeable electronic devices were replaceable packs where water got into the compartment. Perhaps I've just gotten lucky?

How many years do you use them?

I'd guesstimate 5 or so on average. I have noise-cancelling headphones that are coming up on 13 years soon.

I finally fixed my PS3 and came to discover that the controller batteries are just fine. Good batteries with proper BMS seem to be fine to live a very long life.

All li-ion batteries degrade over time, they may not fail completely, but the capacity will be diminished for sure.

Battery failure is a "when" because batteries have a limited number of charge-discharge cycles. Modern lithium-ion batteries have a life expectancy in the range of 300-600 cycles. So if you've never had such a failure, it probably just means you're not a heavy user of your devices.

I try to keep my cell phones as long as I feasibly can. Every single one I've used for more than 3 years has had its battery fail (as expected for a device that sees such heavy cycling). My current phone is on its 3rd replacement battery.

My PSP, maybe five years ago, had a swollen battery. A friend a couple days ago was complaining that his PS4 controller's battery held no charge at all.

Batteries are chemical devices and have a finite lifespan. There's enough confounding variables involved that some people get real superstitious about it.

Through a combination of internal and external factors, lithium batteries go through irreversible chemical changes on every charge cycle. Total charge capacity always trends down. Depending on a large number of variables, this might happen quickly or it might happen so slow you might never notice at all. It's all down to how and where the battery is used because temperature is mostly what drives the chemical reactions.

The other thing is that lithium batteries which have been deeply discharged below safe levels are permanently damaged. Just like charge cycle wear, this can be immediately apparent, or something that goes unnoticed forever, but the cell is damaged and will never be the same. Recharging such a battery can cause physical damage inside the cell.

Point is, batteries are chemical cells. They don't last forever because most chemical reactions are not perfectly reversible. Their specific application and environment strongly affects how long they last. But we do know conclusively that when lithium batteries are kept hot and charged and discharged at high current (such as in a handheld gaming device), they degrade faster. Cells which are kept at a stable temperature and low currents (such as headphones) degrade very slowly and can last a long time.

If you look past superstition, there's an entire industry that's been rigorously studying this problem for decades. There's a lot of literature and evidence.

Lithium cells do degrade. How fast they degrade depends on cell quality and environmental factors. It is, unequivocally, a question of when a battery will fail. It might well be a decade or two, but it will fail eventually.

The Switch 1 is almost 10 years old. Batteries don't have that much longevity.

And it was unnecessarily hard (actually dangerous due to fire risk) to replace it with a 3rd-party battery replacement due to excessive amounts of strong adhesive holding the battery in place.

My launch Switch 1 battery is still working. Capacity is probably 80% or less but it still works fine.

My 8 year old switch is happy.

The switch doesn't fast charge at absurd rates and generally has good thermals.

I'll be the third one with anecdata: somehow my switch lite battery is still okay. I recently found a good repair shop and thought about replacing it, but after paying attention concluded that it's almost the same as new

They all degrade and hold less charge over time and eventually fail completely, it will just take years or decades. But with today's forced obsolescence on the software side I tend to agree. The chance that a device becomes useless long before the battery causes issues are pretty high. The only device I ever had the battery fail first was the PSP (user replaceable), and that was after 20 years. Everything else had other hardware fail (buttons, sticks, flash memory) or run out of software updates ages ago.

That said, this will get more important going forward, phone and tablet hardware updates get ever smaller and incremental, and longer software update cycles are another thing the EU is starting to regulate. So devices reaching 10+ might not be that unusual in the future.

And as an aside, the one type of battery that very frequently fail isn't the built-in LiPo, it's the good old user replaceable Alkaline AA and AAA batteries, and they don't just run empty, they leak and destroy your hardware in the process, even long before the expiry date and with charge left. It's so common that I am surprised that that hasn't seen any regulation or consumer protection jump into action. Using NiMH instead helps, as they don't leak.

I think the more likely explanation is that there was not sufficient market motiviation to include the additional requirement of a user-swappable battery. ie. people care, but they don't care enough or in enough volume for Nintendo to decide it's required.

I celebrate user-swappable batteries and I think I like the battery regulations. I just don't think the Ghost of Iwata is under your bed twirling a Wario moustache while thinking about how to screw you over. The current Switch battery situation is simply a result of user-swappable not being a requirement, among the countless other requirements already in contention.

Disagree. The market will not decide on that, at least for the nintendo product. Your or your kid want the switch and the pokemon and mario and others game, you're buying the switch, you don't switch to something else because the something else allows battery switch.

That's Nintendo's entire business model and the reason why they've been thriving since for ever in gaming and even the bad times where actually positive cash flow wise. They're not losing a single sale because the battery cannot be replaced, unless that sale was far from guaranteed to begin win.

I don't think customers need to be protected from themselves. If they don't like the hardware but buy it anyways because they really like the game, that's a choice. And I feel that when we're dealing with luxury goods, we should give consumers very broad discretion to vote with their money.

This is victim blaming. The customer is not the one deciding make the batteries non-removable. This is protection from Nintendo.

I just don't need a government to declare that I'm a victim by treating me like I'm not capable of saying, "no, the Switch 2 isn't cutting it for the pricetag. I'll skip this gen's Pokemon." This isn't bread. It's a luxury good.

Yes but eliminating unnecessary e-waste is a good thing for everyone.

This isn't about the government being your nanny, it's about the government, long term, building a better more sustainable society for everyone, as it should be doing. And I don't think there's a reasonable objection to that.

The government is the one already saying that bob can't sell me a switch 2 with whatever differences I want because that would infringe Nintendo's IP laws. Thus the government is also the correct place to fix the consequences of that.

"Vote with money" is such a funny talking point in this discussion. It's a metaphor for actual voting, with votes, which the people already did, for politicians who are now protecting their interests. You just don't like corporations being told what to do.

"Vote with your wallet" in a K shaped economy simply becomes the slogan of modern feudalism.

Funnily enough, these regulations were made by policy makers who were voted in with votes, and put such a regulation to its own vote. It's the most democratic way to approach this.

"Voting" with money is an extremely direct way of influencing something - you clearly want it or you don't want it. People definitely wanted Switches already, hence Nintendo is a going concern.

Voting for politicians (if you even bother) who might someday vote for or against something like this is a far, far weaker signal, if any at all. Politicians can easily do things that are vastly unpopular - e.g. in the UK the mass immigration that is clearly deeply unpopular but politicians refuse to change it.

Companies like these enjoy artificial monopolies thanks to IP laws. Why don’t we have the freedom to copy their products and make them the way we want?

As a regulatory decision, this isn't about protecting the consumer. It's about preventing an externality being handled by all of society, specifically reducing e-waste.

Rather than using the coloring of "protected from themselves" I prefer to view consumer protection boards as a collectivized bargaining unit for the consumers as a whole. Similar to unions the deals they strike won't be maximally optimal for all workers but a good consumer protection agency can balance the concerns of consumers and bargain as a single entity with the company. Otherwise the imbalance of bargaining power makes it extremely difficult for change to be enacted.

Consumers do not decide anything, they will buy whatever is in the store.

That's not true, they decide which one of the bad options they want to buy…

As mentioned elsewhere, it's also important to remember that the batteries were fully serviceable - available for purchase, nicely compartmentized and with easy connectors. The products were definitely not designed to die with their batteries. They just weren't compliant with the new rules - this is quite different than a certain fruit company that have historically made battery replacements difficult for even service technicians to complete without consequences like constant user prompts.

I imagine the various products had their specific own conflicts with the rules, like requiring too much disassembly (the Pro controller in particular has to be disassembled from the front first), or the Switch 2 holding the battery with double-sided tape. Not to mention that you might not realize that the screw are JIS spec, stripping them with the Philips screwdriver you found in your drawer. Also triwing.

This doesn't really take into account the real history around user replaceable batteries. It's been happening for years and when there are no alternatives to choose from its not a "vote with your wallet" situation. For example at some point MacBooks just stopped shipping with replaceable batteries and its disingenuous to expect someone to then switch to Dell, Lenovo, or something else. Those platforms can't run MacOS so the choice was made for the users. If you depend on MacOS and the software that runs on it, then your choice was clear--buy a new MacBook with a glued battery.

And replace the entire top case and keyboard along with the battery no less.

I mean, XBOX has been doing replaceable batteries in joysticks since forever.

I have both a PS5 and an XBOX Series X. Whenever I am playing if I get out of battery on the XBOX, I just change them. In the PS5 is not possible.

I don't get what the advantage is.

How would you ever measure market motivation in such a small market that has max 2-4 viable alternatives?

The market mechanism breaks down in such circumstances.

I don't think that's it for console manufacturers. They make the majority of their money on game sales, so they want the console itself to be used for as long as possible.

That's true for Sony, but Nintendo doesn't sell the Switch at a loss.

It's true for Nintendo too. They don't sell the hardware at a loss but also they make very little from the consoles (at least when they're new). Most of the money comes from software accessories.

It's not about the console itself, but the accessories, anything that makes you buy more controllers means more money for them. And batteries aren't even the worst offender here.

Controllers have been using USB and an almost identical layout since the Xbox1 days 25 years ago, yet most game controller remain incompatible with each other, even within the same company. PS3 won't work on PS4 and PS4 won't work on PS5. Ironically, PS4 and PS5 controller will work on PS3, since that was the first and last console that supported plain old USB HID. Meanwhile Xbox360 had a lock-out chip to prevent third party controller and the Xbox360 controller don't work on XboxOne/Series either. XboxOne and XboxSeries at least are compatible. Meanwhile on PC pretty much everything works.

And then you have the whole stick drift problem, that has been solved since Dreamcast and PS3 SIXAXIS with Hall effect joysticks, but even decades later we still have controllers going in the bin due for easily avoidable reasons.

Rubber coating is another very common way to add an expiry date to devices that wouldn't have one otherwise.

If we wanted to get serious with the whole "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle", there are a lot more low hanging fruit than just the batteries.

To be clear, all the mentioned Nintendo products are already designed for battery replacement, with well-contained battery units and easy connectors, and the batteries are available and problem-free to replace unlike for a certain fruit company.

The redesign is because the ease of accessing the batteries did not comply with the new rules. The pro controller in particular requires almost complete disassembly to get to the module, and the Switch 2's battery uses double-sided adhesive which is finicky. Joycons can also be a bit finicky to navigate for the uninitiated.

Also, as the device is Japanese, it uses JIS screws rather than Philips (in addition to triwing), which could surprise some. These are superior for service - Philips screws are specifically designed to strip during assembly to prevent over-torquing - but they do require you to have the right, "exotic" screwdriver. As JIS screwdrivers are compatible with and superior in bite even for Philips screws, it's a good habit to just always use those instead for electronics. iFixit kits and such include them.

Torx is also common and also way way better than philips. Really we as a society need to phase out philips screws yesterday.

> Really we as a society need to phase out philips screws yesterday.

Pozidriv to the rescue! (just kidding)

The prevalence of Robertson in Canada is amazing.

I keep the Robertson head in my drill because it's pretty much the only one I ever use.

Because Robertsons are the best. There is no equal for wood screws.

Philips is great for what it's designed to do, strip out.

But for electronics I basically never want that behavior.

So in essence, if you EVER think you might need to disassemble something, you shouldn't use Philips.

And even then, torque screwdrivers are not that expensive

I've stripped out every sort of head. It isn't the heads fault really. Lack of thread treatment and/or correct application of torque is the cause and can happen to any head.

iPhone batteries are actually relatively easy to access and replace. The only annoying thing that Apple (and most other gadgets) insist on is adhesive strip mounting of the battery. Just use screws please.

I recently changed the battery of my Switch 1, if for most of the process it was easy, and I really struggled on two points. 1) the plastic part into which the screws are screwed broke, and it is tough to remove them. 2) ungluing the battery with isopropyl alcohol without breaking anything was very long for me. I recently changed the USB port of my Fairphone 4 and it was just unscrewing and screwing. So for me it is a great change from Nintendo.

There's been some recent developments with removing batteries glued to the device: use floss or some other thin string and saw through the glue. The string won't pierce the battery and can fit in tight spots.

That's clever.

I usually just cut a "knife" out of a cereal box and saw back and forth.

I remember same floss-hack used to work to replace a smartphone screen without replacing touchscreen

Oh how far we fallen

I used floss as indicated in ifixit comments, but the glue did not saw easily (I'm not dexterous).

I recently changed the USB port of my Fairphone 4 and it was just unscrewing and screwing.

why are you changing a USB port on a phone?

At some point, only charging worked (and for one usb-c cable only on one side, which is weird given connecter is symmetrical), data and usb-audio stopped working. With my previous Samsung phone contact became very unreliable after 3 years. A new connector costs only a few euros, but I cannot do the soldering by myself and it cost me around 40€.

>it uses JIS screws rather than Philips (in addition to triwing)

I don't think this is an issue for anyone who has had to disassemble a japanese device before, and the bits are widely available online. Countless youtube videos have discussed that JIS vs Philips in the consumer space are largely compatible outside of american aircraft construction.

I've disassembled a few Japanese cameras with JIS screws, and they're definitely not largely compatible. You will strip the screw.

Phillips Heads: The design is often criticized for its tendency to cam out at lower torque levels than other "cross head" designs. There has long been a popular belief that this was a deliberate feature of the design, to assemble aluminium aircraft without overtightening the fasteners.[15]: 85 [16] There is no good evidence for this suggestion, and the property is not mentioned in the original patents.[17]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Phillips

It has more to do with manufacturing techniques. Screw heads are stamped. A cone shape, with all sloped sides, is easier to stamp reliably. Even the famed Robertson bits from canada have a slight slope for this reason.

If I were to speculate, the point of phillips head was to just be easier to use than flat head while still being easy to manufacture 90 years ago. The better heads introduced since then have more intricate designs that require more precise manufacturing than a simple stamp

They describe it as a feature in their later 1942 patent (US2474994A), in the description of which they mention it to protect against powertools with poor torque control, claiming that a better screw would only be possible if power tools and their torque control were perfect and that it is therefore a required feature.

The original designs did not reference this though, so it seems more like them adopting an observed behavior as a feature - so the statement that it was originally designed to be that way is indeed off, but the company did adopt the behavior in official paperwork.

I work with a product that has to use Philips head for one specific area. I hate those damn screws. They all need to be torqued to a specific value and this requires putting an significant amount of force axial to the screw to keep the driver from slipping. If you do slip, you'll probably strip the head and now it needs to be replaced. It doesn't help that there's a gasket around the plate that adds extra running torque. Good luck getting a countersunk #2 screw out. The rest of the product uses hex heads so those are incredibly easy to install.

> Also, as the device is Japanese, it uses JIS screws rather than Philips (in addition to triwing), which could surprise some.

My understanding is that Europeans also generally tend to not use Phillips screws, but Pozidriv instead.

Philips in PZ screws is generally going to cam out like a regular philips head, just because you're not biting into the top with the PZ... triangle bits? I'm sure there's a technical name haha. So you can get by with that, a self-selected crappy philips experience when you could've chosen pozidriv bliss.

Philips in JIS screws is an exercise in anger management. IIRC, JIS has a much wider angle on the bottom of the drive, making it sink into the head less than a philips drive would, so it's a great way to turn your philips driver into an artisanaly-rounded single-hole punch.

It's not the top triangle bits that cause the problem, it's that the whole geometry is different with parallel versus tapered flanks.

Also note that drivers are made far harder than screws, so it will take many screws turned rivets before a driver becomes said artisinal hole punch.

Am European, yeah but pozidriv was never used for tiny screws. We have also pretty much migrated all screw sizes to torx nowadays, so I only ever really see pozidriv on older appliances and hardware, while Philips mostly happen on imports.

There are also screws more commonly available than JIS but not as comically bad as Phillips. Hopefully they use those

Your comment is interesting but next time say "Apple," right to repair isn't really about this Portlandia-esque mealy mouthed nerdery your rhetoric trades in. The batteries cost "$1" so I should be able to just buy them and quickly replace them. It's that simple.

Excuse me? That derogatory tongue-in-cheek way of referring to that company is not "mealy mouthed nerdery", as everyone and their mother understands who I am referring to. The lawsuit mitigation communication I suspect you're confusing it for requires it to be genuinely unclear who you mean.

However, batteries cannot cost $1 unless you want $1 worth of battery. Modern batteries are genuinely complex devices with extremely tight assembly tolerances, and something like a phone battery should be expected to be more like 10-40 USD.

Cheapo cells exist, but they genuinely have issues like poor assembly tolerances introducing risks of it deciding to spontaneously transform into a pocket-sized smoke machine.

I think I've read somewhere that JIS was phased out after Philips standard included some of JIS features and that theoretically modern Philips screwdrivers should be compatible with JIS.

The JIS, ISO and ASME standards for cross head screw drivers are fully compatible.

The myth that JIS needs special screwdrivers is caused by people using either using the wrong size (easy at small sizes), using a worn-out or poorly-made screwdriver, or using Pozidriv (which is genuinely very different).

Anecdotally, about 5 years ago I bought a set of off-brand "premium" screwdrivers, where it turned out the Phillips head ones (yes there are two L's in there) were so far outside the standard I had to just throw them in the trash.

You got the wrong standard. JIS B 1012 type H is Philips equivalent, but what people refer to as the JIS screw is JIS B 1012 type S. JIS B 1012 Type S ("JIS") and ISO 8764 (Philips) are entirely different screw and scredriver profiles. See https://www.peterverdone.com/jis-cross-head-screws-and-drive....

The Philips screwdriver has lobes with a large multi-stage taper that ejects the screwdriver from the screw upon torque. The JIS screwdriver lobes are in contrast almost perfect 90 degree angle with a tiny filet in the center - not dissimilar to the Frearson screw.

A Philips screwdriver will be unable to insert all the way into a JIS screw due to this taper, exactly similar to how the extra lobes on a Pozidriv screwdriver collides a Philips screw. Attempting to apply torque with this partial engagement puts you at very high risk of stripping the screw.

A JIS screwdriver however does work perfectly fine in Philips screws, often even better than the Philips screwdriver as you did away with one half of the "screwdriver ejection feature".

There's a reason that iFixit goes out of their way to make both JIS and Philips bits, and warn you in their guides. They aren't really in the business of trying to cram more bits down your throat for fun.

This is an old rumor but I thought Nintendo made a loss on the devices. If that's true, why would they want to sell more?

Battery life is shorter, and some are a tad heavier.

Is it?

>Battery capacity: 5172mAh, approximately 1% smaller than current version (5220mAh)

Quoting just one of the smallest one feels a bit... charged. There's small tradeoffs among all of them when you account for weight.

For everyone else here's the full list:

Switch 2 Battery capacity: 5172mAh, approximately 1% smaller than current version (5220mAh) Weight: Approximately 411g, around 10g heavier than current version With Joy-Con 2 controllers attached: Approximately 548g, around 14g heavier than current version (approximately 534g).

JoyCon 2: Battery capacity: No change. Weight: each 2g heavier

Switch 2 Pro Controller: Battery capacity: 897mAh, approximately 16% smaller than current version (1070mAh). Weight: Approximately 228g, around 7g lighter than current version (approximately 235g).

N64 Controller: Battery capacity: No change. Weight: Approximately 234g, around 1g heavier than current version (approximately 233g)

GameCube controller: Battery capacity: 525mAh, approximately 5% larger than current version (500mAh). Weight: 215g, around 5g heavier than current version (210g).

They quoted what matters the most as it's for a device which has single shortest runtime on a battery: the Switch console itself.

Because who cares if the controller lasts 27 or 30 days? (Or so, don't quite me on exact numbers).

It is typically a 40hr battery life.

~6 hours is quite a drop.

The Switch 2 has a 5-hour battery life, and the controllers can charge through the console.

Put the controllers on the device when you're not using it (which seems like the obvious place to keep them), and they'll never run out.

Sorry I should have specified that is the pro controller, typical use case is a docked switch and the controller is used while on a couch or some such.

Literally the worst case scenario for dramatic reduction in battery life.

The console one seems the only relevant one. I'm a casual gamer, but the joycon running out of battery doesn't feel that annoying to me. That 16% has a much smaller impact on the JoyCon than on the main device.

5 years later, after a battery swap, the model with a replaceable battery has a longer battery life than the one stuck with a degraded battery.

More like just 1 year later even if you just store it unused, considering typical battery degradation.

The ones with "non replaceable" batteries still has a longer battery life after a battery swap, it just requires a screwdriver and a couple of brain cells.

Oh, sorry we made batteries replaceable for people with only one brain cell.

No, it requires adhesive-removing chemicals, IPA as a bare minimum, dental floss, plastic prying tools, and some idea of battery safety (so you don't turn it into a fireball by trying to extract it aggressively with a screwdriver).

Genuinely struggled to extract a Switch 1 battery from it's adhesive, and I'm usually perfectly comfortable disassembling+reassembling that sort of thing.

The use of adhesives, in excessive quantity/strength, on fragile/dangerous batteries is the problem, not the screwdriver or brain cells.

> So there was nothing "limiting" them from making it already with user-replaceable batteries, they just didn't care enough until EU forced them (like all the smartphone brands). Love EU.

At the very least, the design will be more complicated to accommodate replaceable batteries. That costs money. There's a lot more to "limiting" than functionality.

They could've just designed it that way to begin with.

Thanks to this regulation, they will the next time around.

A more complicated design costs more money to build/test and introduces more modes of failure in the final product.

I'm not too worried. Removable batteries were standard fare for decades before Apple came around and set negative precedent. I don't recall it ever causing issues.

It's amazing how quickly we forget

Removable batteries were standard fare for decades before Apple came around and set negative precedent.

You must be newly hatched.

I have plenty of devices in my gadget box with non-replaceable batteries that pre-date Apple's iPhones, and even its iPods.

Sure. But I bet you also have plenty of gadgets with replaceable batteries.

Just because something is standard fare doesn't mean it's the only option. Point is, it was quite common in the past.

Part of the reason it was so common in the past was because rechargeable battery technology for small consumers devices was a lot more limited. NiCd was the main choice and they required careful management to keep them working well.

Also there were no real standards for chargers. Nearly every small consumer device that used NiCd batteries came with its own bespoke chargers.

Hence most small consumer devices went with replaceable batteries because they expected nearly everyone to use non-rechargeable batteries.

I’m happy that my gadgets no longer need expensive AA batteries.

...or NiMH AA rechargeable batteries if you could be arsed.

Rechargeable batteries have become very good and very cheap. IKEA sells 4xAA batteries for 8€, made in Japan, last 500-1000 cycles. Many "non-user-serviceable" devices actually have them inside; they're just not accessible without breaking the plastic clips that hold everything together: https://www.pololu.com/category/54/batteries

The current hack is to buy devices made for disposable batteries and then use rechargeables. Electric toothbrushes almost all come with built-in non-removable batteries... except the cheapest ones, which also work fine.

You are generalizing. The design may very well be simpler, just more expensive.

The Pinto fix was 11 cents per unit or so.

Get real.

> like all the smartphone brands

But there is at least some argument that smartphones nowadays have some pretty crazy waterproofness that I'm not sure is physically possible with a replaceable battery?

This is not true. There are old replaceable-battery dumbphones that were rated in feet of submersion.

We love to mock flat-earthers but believe it or not there are many people on HN who don't believe gaskets are a real thing.

In more concrete terms, there are modern (2025) smartphones like the Samsung Galaxy XCover7 Pro w/ replaceable batteries which have IP67 (1 meter of water for 30 minutes) or higher certification. The back panel popping off too easily (and dumping the battery with it) is one of the common cons with the device though, so while you can get everything it is an extra layer of difficulty to try to design around correctly.

I expect smartphones to look more like the Pro Controller tradeoffs than the joy cons. The issue with replaceable batteries is you need the extra space for the battery structure so unless phones grow they'll have lower capacities. There's also IP ratings, phones have pretty good IP ratings these days often surviving drops in puddles etc where none of these products have any official IP rating to preserve when adding doors etc for replacement batteries.

I'm baffled that we still are thinking that we want thin phones. We have a gigantic camera bump that would be removed if the phone was thicker. Who wants a razor in their pocket, like really?

Not only that, but if phone batteries were user replaceable, they could be sold in multiple capacities. So people that want "thin" phones can keep their camera protrusions, and the people that want more battery capacity could get a pack that allows the phone to sit flush on a table.

Literally win win win.

You say that like it'd be a simple process to accommodate the different thicknesses of battery..

I'm not sure what you're trying to say? The replaceable battery is either thicker, or it isn't. There's not much to accommodate.

This is already a thing for some [dedicated] cameras like the Canon EOS series.

A thicker battery would need a new back built with a hump or standoffs across the whole back to increase the overall thickness to match the new larger battery thickness...

Correct. This used to be done before on flip phones, and is still currently being done for dedicated cameras.

This is a solved problem and not an issue.

A modern cell phone is very different from the old flip phones and SLRs/large dedicated camera. Resealing modern phones after upgrades/repairs is one of the harder parts of the whole process with fiddly little sealing glue gaskets to maintain IP ratings.

Again, solved problem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairphone_6

'Solved' by having measurably worse ingress protection than leading smartphones?

Yes, this is solved. Samsung makes rugged IP68 phones with user swappable batteries that are thinner than an iPhone 17 Pro when factoring the camera bump [1].

It's kind of comical how accurate this comment is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48807174

[1] https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_xcover7-12784.php

My experience with phones like that are that they tend to fall apart when subjected to impact, which is pretty counterproductive to features like, I don’t know, being able to use the phone immediately after an impact (car crash, fall).

Sony Xperia Z solved in 2013: Water jet protected & Waterproof up to 1 meter in 30 minutes

I've had a HTC HD2 that had exactly that[1] - an extended battery with a bump. It looked silly, but did its job and in daily usage wasn't that big of a deal, actually provided a resting spot for my index finger.

[1] https://www.phonearena.com/news/Extended-battery-with-kick-s...

> they just didn't care enough

Of course there are extra costs. The parts and the extra assembly isn't free and it does add up.

We are talking about plastic parts and metal tabs. I'd be shocked if the actual impact on per unit price was above $0.10.

Perhaps the most expensive part of this whole process is then engineering time to figure out how to place a replaceable battery.

Didn't care? Consumers don't care about this. Like most EU laws, this is a solution in search of a problem. Nintendo, like every other tech company, did the research and found that people simply don't care about this stuff. Now we have more complicated devices and have to buy our own batteries for what, exactly? There is just very little benefit here.

I think consumers do care when they have to throw away a device or pay for a repair because the battery health has significantly degraded. This is really similar to the argument against having a standardized charging port or requiring usb-c charge ports for cellphones.

Yeah, I agree. Also, there's little evidence that consumers really care about this. Batteries last a long time now.

This is like the Germans decommissioning their nuclear power plants, What have they gained by doing so? Dependency on the Russians?

While it's not functionality, the batteries will be physically smaller, and thus less capacity.

* 2 products: no change

* 2 products: -1%, -16%

* 1 product: +5%

more of a mixed bad if you ask me

Amazes me they don't just sell it like that everywhere because it sounds a lot like a product improvement...

> The revised products will be available on a rolling basis in territories where Nintendo of Europe conducts business, either directly or through a distributor, namely: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Oman, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Arab Emirates, and the United Kingdom.

Quite a few of these aren't EU members, some aren't even in Europe; do we know why they were added? e.g.: Switzerland or United Kingdom; but also Oman or United Arab Emirates.

It's everywhere Nintendo of Europe (the subsidiary in the EU) operates.

This makes sense - thanks!

Norway is in the ECC together with Iceland, but for some reason Iceland is not on the list where these SKUs will be available.

That's probably because Iceland is not an official Sales-territory of Nintendo, it's handled by Bergsala AB, a swedish distributor which serves the market there.

Storage, and distribution costs.

It's easier for Nintendo of Europe to switch over everyone than to stock and supply 2 versions of every product. Also I'd bet most of their sales come from the EU countries where the replaceable battery requirement is forcing this new SKU deployment anyways.

For logistics reasons, a lot of companies operate a EMEA (Europe, Middle East, Africa) division. That probably applies to one of their suppliers.

It’s infuriating that it’s not just the default, especially for a game console where the majority of profit is coming from software sales.

Every Switch that becomes unplayable where fixing it costs more than a $20 battery replacement is a console that is not buying games from the Nintendo eShop.

Or a new switch being bought by the parent for the distressed child

Shorter battery life is just fine

For sure, and I don’t find carting a spare external battery around horrendous…it just seems like a non-water resistant device like the switch should have an easy battery replacement.

For one thing, Nintendo loves selling overpriced accessories.

> Amazes me they don't just sell it like that everywhere because it sounds a lot like a product improvement...

I'm not so sure. The first laptop I bought, a Titanium Powerbook, had replaceable batteries. And even better than that: you could hot-swap them while the laptop was running on battery power, and the laptop wouldn't even shut off. It felt leagues ahead of even modern replaceable battery functionality, and honestly? After owning that laptop for years, I felt like I just wasted my money with that additional battery.

Part of it, I'm sure, was that I didn't have an external charger to charge the battery not currently in the laptop. But on the whole, it just didn't feel like it was actually worthwhile, and when Apple stopped shipping replaceable batteries, I've never missed it.

(Hot swapping the batteries really was awesome, though)

Compulsory Apple-defending post is compulsory.

Non-replaceable batteries are worse for consumers and worse for the environment. The fact that you "do not miss" a better world, does not mean it is not better.

> The fact that you "do not miss" a better world, does not mean it is not better.

In the abstract, yeah, it's better. But the extra battery cost me a lot of money, and I did not feel it was money well spent.

> Non-replaceable batteries

Most batteries are replaceable. The difference is the level of effort involved.

Replacing a Switch 1 battery really annoyed me. No problem with tiny screws and fiddly disassembly.

Big problem with the truly excessive amount and strength of adhesive holding the old one in place, and having a real struggle to remove it (even after trying with IPA and dental floss)

Easily swappable batteries do have significant downsides, you either need to compromise on capacity or form factor.

Of course that doesn’t mean they should be hard to replace with some tools and effort.

To be fair back in those days laptops only lasted on battery power for a few hours at most (also old batteries had a very short lifetime compared to modern ones) so being able to swap it was an actually useful feature.

I have an old ThinkPad as my only laptop. It came to me used, with an aftermarket battery.

That battery was great for a couple of years before it started to get wonky, so I replaced it with a different aftermarket battery.

This process took zero tools. It took less time to swap in a new battery than it did for me to write this comment. Anyone can do it; it is not an arduous procedure.

What was the added environmental cost here? Some "single-use" plastics that lasted for years?

Phones used to work like that too. I think all my feature phones and first Android phone worked if it was plugged in with the battery removed.

The thing about the TI powerbook was, it didn't have to be plugged in to hot swap the battery. You could do it when running on battery power. (It had a tiny internal battery, that could run it for like 20-30 seconds, so long as the screen was closed).

It did also run when plugged in with the battery removed, which is good 'cause the battery eventually failed. So this way I can still run it.

Oh! Cool!

I had an Apple laptop that had two bays, one on the left and one on the right. Usually, you'd have the battery on the left and the CD drive on the right. But for lots of people, battery life was more important than a CD drive on a laptop, so you could double your battery life by putting in a battery on both sides.

Tech used to be fricken cool :-)

According to their latest fiscal report [0], Europe sales-volume of Switch2 is ~24% of the total global sales volume.

The change surely eats into their margin per device, so they prefer to keep the higher margin for the rest of the world and recalculate their margin for europe.

However interesting: "The Americas" sells 34% of all Switch2 in the world [0]. I wouldn't expect the US to mandate the same changes, but if e.g. Canada or Brazil also demand replaceable batteries, it could push the needle to making it a default HW-feature of Switch2...

[0] https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2026/260203_2e.pdf

The higher margin is mostly coming from assembly costs, right? I can't imagine it comes from the actual cost of the battery being so much higher. I hope that once they start pushing these out and retool factories for them they can sell them more broadly.

The lower margin for the new variant you mean?

From my experience, it comes from costs generated by:

1. Additional R&D-work and QA for the modification

2. New supply-chain deals for lower-volume components

Current sales-volume of Europe is only a quarter of the global volume, so price-negotiation is based on a much lower total volume-forecast.

Even if not, Battery prices today are ~15% higher than in 2024 (I expect Nintendo signed the supply-deal in late 2024), it'll be hard for Nintendo to cancel their existing supply-contract before fulfilling it (!), move to a different component AND get the same/lower price.

--> Better to sell other regions as-is, fulfill the contract and hope for a better climate in a year.

3. Tooling/Assembly (Ramp-Up costs, different processes, QA,...)

4. Re-certification of HW for relevant bodies in that region (Europe is quite lean on this, CE-certification is simple compared to US FTC/FCC)

I can almost hear the conversation with Nintendo of America CEO about covering 1/3 of the cost to get the same SKU and him simply responding "No, we just raised the prices because of component-cost increase, we wait for the HW-refresh in 2H/2027"

I wouldn't be surprised if they plan to unify the SKU again with a premium "Switch 2 OLED", offsetting the additional costs, preserving the margin and having an additional selling-point...

I would prefer the current versions without anything replaceable. I have the Switch bought on day 1 and a Pro Controller which is 9 years old. Yes, the Switch was mostly used docked, but the battery is last thing failing there, it rather has issues with the fan, the screen scratches etc. The controller works perfectly and I charge it once a month. The replaceable battery would only make it less solid.

The biggest Switch issue by far is joystick drift on joycons. I've replaced 3 on my Switch 2 already and we have the same issue on the new Switch 2 in the office.

EU also forced Nintendo to provide lifetime free repairs on drifty joycons since Nintendo chooses not to address the issue.

https://www.euroconsumers.org/game-over-for-faulty-nintendo-...

My day 1 Switch battery was definitely significantly degraded when I did a DIY battery swap a couple of years back.

Battery longevity varies based on usage patterns and likely other factors (temperature?), but it's normal to notice a significant reduction in capacity within 4-5 years.

And the amount of adhesive holding the old battery in made replacing it an unnecessarily hard and actually dangerous (risk of battery fire due to physical damage) process.

I almost bought a Switch 2 but then remembered this was going into effect. Decided to push it off and keep using my still quite functional Switch 1 until I can get one.

Why would anyone not want a user replaceable battery ?

I also specifically ordered an electric toothbrush from UK Amazon awhile back that was (on the surface) identical to the American version. The UK and EU version however had a sort of (not super easy but still not that hard) user replaceable battery. Because they had to redesign with a user replaceable battery it uses a fairly standard sized lithium rechargeable (I forget the exact size - smaller than an 18650 but somewhat common).

The side effect of this was the battery inside is also much higher quality and much higher capacity than the US version. The diameter of the device is slightly larger (to accommodate the larger battery) which also fits my hands better. Even if I never replace the battery the device itself lasts insanely long between charges which is a huge plus. The cost was the same (excluding a small extra charge for shipping).

>Nintendo Switch, Nintendo Switch Lite, and Nintendo Switch – OLED Model will all continue to be manufactured in 2026, and should be widely available in Europe all year.

>From mid-February 2027, almost ten years after Nintendo Switch launched in March 2017, Nintendo will no longer sell to retailers hardware in the Nintendo Switch family of systems – specifically Nintendo Switch, Nintendo Switch Lite and Nintendo Switch – OLED Model. Sales of Nintendo Switch hardware on Nintendo Store will also end in mid-February 2027.

Understandable, but maybe that shouldn't be buried in the FAQ...

More complete:

The below products will not be replaced by versions that contain user-replaceable batteries in Europe:

- Nintendo Entertainment System (NES) Controller for Nintendo Switch

- Pokémon™ GO Plus +

- Nintendo Switch

- Nintendo Switch Lite

- Nintendo Switch – OLED Model

- Nintendo Switch Pro Controller

- SEGA Mega Drive Control Pad for Nintendo Switch

- Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES) Controller for Nintendo Switch

Nintendo will no longer offer the above-named products on Nintendo Store after mid-February 2027.

Brussels effect, please do your magic; thanks.

Brussels effect, please do your magic; thanks.

"Brussels Effect" is the new "California Emissions."

Please keep the conversation merit based.

Glad to live in the EU, but then we also have Chat Control trying to pass again.

Honestly, amazing stuff. For all the flak that the EU gets this is absolutely an essential regulation

They will still get all the flak, facts never mattered.

And just like everything moving to USB-C, they won't get credit for the Switch 3 et al having replaceable batteries world-wide.

I don't know about that, i think it's pretty common knowledge that the EU caused the iPhone port change, and it's generally regarded as a good thing

I'm preparing to release my first app to the App Store and they're currently requiring me to dox myself if I want to sell in the EU. Which facts am I missing that makes this not very inconvenient for me?

One might argue that this is one of the reason why the EU is getting flak: because it sets up regulations that lower some companies profit.

It’s equal parts funny and frustrating to see how deep into the ”a few hypothetical percent of profits for corporations matters more than customer rights and less e-waste” some are.

This. The top problems facing the world are gaming consoles' charging sources. Everything else is thankfully solved.

Nothing should be improved unless it solves world hunger.

It's not about games consoles. It's about reducing the mountains of e-waste.

We shouldn't be throwing away laptops, smartphones, or consoles - or soon, entire EVs, just because the battery has degraded.

All of those things can be recycled and almost all of them can be replaced whether or not its end-user-servicable.

"Can" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there

It might be a good regulation but it is definitely not essential!

The push for replaceable batteries is coming just as battery life is increasing.[1] We're already seeing that with electric cars. When solid-state batteries finally come out in volume, they should outlast the devices they go into. The big players are saying that solid state batteries in phone size should start shipping in 2027. Cars are further off.

[1] https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2026/05/20/...

Interesting, in the fineprint they actually confirm that they set the "Switch 1" End-Of-Life by Feb.2027 and stop selling it.

This means they will lose the revenue of that product-line (currently ~15% of their total hardware unit sales according to their fiscal report [0]), which may help accelerate the need for a "lite" version of the Switch2 to recover this market-segment...

...or not, because console sales is generally dropping and there's actually no competition to Nintendo in the handheld console segment...

Bleak times ahead for the gaming industry, and for the gamers...

[0] https://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2026/260203_2e.pdf

Not sure what they'll do (Maybe they'll release Switch2 Lite or Switch 2 OLED in Q2/Q3 2027). but I guess like Apple stopped with Lightning until they finished their transition to USB-C they'll just let the transition work.

Wish they'd do a Switch 2 edition without a screen. I use mine (Switch 1) 100% docked.

Related page posted on 04-jun-2026: "Compliance with EU Directives and Regulations" https://www.nintendo.com/en-gb/Corporate/Consumer-Informatio... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48402926)

Unfortunately, programmed obsolesce is the unspoken motto for most companies. Only fierce competition or regulation can push them to do a better job.

So now the rest of the world will try to put a hand on these models. Lets see how this goes.

It's kinda crazy that they're releasing an improved version only in places where it's mandatory by law. You'd think it's cheaper (and definitely better PR) to just release the new version everywhere.

I will agree with you! Just release it for all. Also now they have to make 2 devices, which it should probably be more hassle.

Are the batteries in the Nintendo switch locked in anyway? Wonder if its viable that third party batteries could have an increased capacity.

There are definitely third party batteries, but the replacement process is not trivial for a typical person. Lots of adhesives are involved.

Also, third party batteries vary wildly in quality -- I've replaced the battery in my Nintendo switch twice, both times using brands I've heard of, and neither battery is as good as the original OEM battery was when i first got it.

Tangentially, How much would maintaining two different skus cost I wonder.

Working with multiple SKU’s and hardware revisions is standard practice. Just like the Switch and OLED Switch.

PlayStation always had a whole series of SKU’s, from 1 to 5. People sometimes search for a specific one, due to certain chips being used. https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps5/SKU_Models

Similarly the WII is also known to ship several hardware revisions, with different properties such as video output quality.

https://bitbuilt.net/forums/threads/revision-identification-...

The same goes for many electronic products, from TV’s to iPhones. Sometimes the features are noticeably different per revision or region. Still it is called the same product.

Edit: added phone/tv example.

What constitutes a replaceable battery in this regulation? I don’t want hatches on things. Especially not phones. It’s fine to have some screws between me and a battery, if that makes it have 1% more capacity, 1% more rigid or be 1% more water proof.

https://prodlaw.eu/2025/02/eu-battery-regulation-removabilit...

Basically changeable with normal tools and safely without risk of destroying the battery or product.

Screws are fine, glue is not

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2023/1542/oj/eng

> A portable battery should be considered to be removable by the end-user when it can be removed with the use of commercially available tools and without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless they are provided free of charge, or proprietary tools, thermal energy or solvents to disassemble it. Commercially available tools are considered to be tools available on the market to all end-users without the need for them to provide evidence of any proprietary rights and that can be used with no restriction, except health and safety-related restrictions.

I wonder what the average battery life is on these

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