Learn Vim motions with an ice-cream van | Hacker News Reader

Learn Vim motions with an ice-cream van

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123 pointsmarcusmichaels50 comments

Neat, but the (presumably AI-generated) provenance of this means it has regrettable gaps and errors:

On "There and back", it says par is 6 – it's solvable in 4.

On "Rush hour", it describes an invalid motion 'r': "type a number first to repeat a command, e.g. 3j or 4r"

It isn't clear why certain motions are being introduced where they aren't relevant, and therefore aren't going to be immediately practised at point of introduction – "Rush hour" introduces gg to go home, but then doesn't need it.

If I'm going to use something to practice and hone my vim motion, I'm going to need it to be an accurate resource. I closed it at this point.

Thanks for the feedback, the par is set based on the level, not the absolute best that can be achieved. I added 4r specifically as an example to get across being able to change multiple characters such as XXXX to YYYY.

Though I’m aware some keyboards might not be fully compatible yet so I’ll work on adding wider support.

EDIT: You’re right, I loosely included r but it’s not technically “motion”

Thanks for following up! I had another play and I see what you mean about par, makes sense.

It would be great if the 4r perhaps isn't introduced until the game gets into the later stages of editing buffers – I think that would avoid repetitively introducing the same ideas before they can really be used.

Nice work though and nice idea.

I agree, will update it, thank you!

Butting in to add: I'd prefer vim features always be available even if not yet introduced - you don't have to mention the existence of 'r', but keeping it available to my vim habits will cause less frustration to the experiences vimmer.

I’ll add that in. Makes sense!

Great game! Minor issue, the ^ isn't working ABNT2 keyboard on Linux (tested in both Chrome and Firefox). We need it in level=1-5.

Beautiful project. Vim controls really found their way into my muscle memory through Tridactyl and Vimium, browser extensions that let you drive web pages and the browser itself with Vim keybinds.

There's also Homerow [0] that adds Vimium-like features OS-wide on macOS. It does have some rough edges but overall I've been very happy with it. It usually works well even on apps that don't have proper keyboard navigation implemented and also handles situations with many clickable elements very well (e.g. IntelliJ).

[0] https://www.homerow.app/

On the last exercise of world 6, rewrite the highlight, "cw" leaves the "a" at the end of the line. Both "c$" and "C" work. I didn't know about "C" until I read the web page - I've been using c$ for that.

On World 6-3, if i use i.e. d3j to delete the 3 lines it deletes the current line + the 3 below. Vim generally treats commands like that as "do this X times including the current line", so it should delete the current line and the 2 lines below.

Yes, hjkl navigation is certainly one of the things that should learn about a vi clone. But are novices well served, in the 2020s, by that being the primary thing that they learn before anything else?

This is not a criticism of this WWW site specifically. The VIM doco has the same priorities, teaching hjkl navigation before arrow keys. (So do nvi2 and NeoVIM.) The problem is that the received wisdom, that arrow keys are some newfangled idea that might not have reached your terminal manufacturer yet, is massively out of date.

Even if one does not teach the arrow keys first, the BS SPC SO (Control+N) DLE (Control+P) set is surely worth teaching early on. One cannot make any reasonable argument that terminals might not have spacebars. (-:

The reasons I still use vi-style editing in editors are:

1. Efficiency, so I can be fast

2. Minimal stretching and whole-hand movement, so I don't get painful wrists and so I can be accurate.

Using a keyboard's arrow keys doesn't fit with 2.

Touch typing essentially. It's such a comfortable way to work. Remapping mode switching to something like jk instead of Esc is vital to stay comfortably in the home row.

I always liked this site to grok some of those vim fundamentals [1] and the touch typing part was going to touch typing exercise webpages and getting pure practice.

- [1] http://learnvimscriptthehardway.stevelosh.com/

I always wonder about the choice of hjkl, because don't people normally rest their hands one row to the left, on jkl;?

It has to do with the codes these keys (used to) emit in combination with Ctrl:

  Ctrl/H - Backspace
  Ctrl/J - Line Feed
  Ctrl/K - Upline
  Ctrl/L - Forward Space

Source - the ADM-3A operator's manual, page 3-5:

https://archive.org/download/lear-siegler-adm-3-a/Lear_Siegl...

Doesn’t the act of reaching for the mouse actually creates a natural moment of wrist relaxation? A fixed wrist position creates static muscle tension.

That does not really present any argument that we should be teaching your way of working to VIM novices, instead of teaching them the obvious arrow keys first and the hjkl navigation later.

You're right, It presents an argument that we shouldn't teach them 'the obvious' arrow keys at all.

Sorry to be blunt, but if you don’t want to spend effort on touch typing (and therefore avoid arrow keys), learning vim motions is rather pointless and you might as well not bother.

but what if i learned to type Colemak?

At that point does your keyboard even still have arrow keys?

Many years ago, I have switched to touch-typing using the Dvorak layout (on standard QWERTY keyboards), which I find much more comfortable.

Obviously any classic control key assignments, like those of vi or those of emacs, are far from optimal on a non-standard keyboard layout.

The only decent solution is to remap all control keys in your text editor, to whichever positions you prefer.

Any good text editor allows that. Likewise, all programs with a good user interface allow the remapping of the keyboard shortcuts.

I just have a layer on my keyboard that puts arrow keys where hjkl are on qwerty when I hold the tab key. Since tab is right next to my pinky finger on my laptop, it easily became muscle memory, and allows to use home row navigation in all apps, not just the ones that support hjkl.

I'll be blunt to you back: that's not true. Vim motions are useful because you don't have to switch between the keyboard and the mouse, even if you (like me) never bothered with touch typing.

hjkl are more of a cult/status thing anyway because they are not _that_ touch-typing-friendly to begin with, and they suck just as much as the cursor keys for moving the cursor around.

Insisting so much on hjkl is silly. No one is using an ADM-3A in 2026, so the official documentation should let users use the more intuitive cursor keys and downgrade hjkl to what they have always been since vi: __ham-fisted alternatives to the cursor keys__.

How are they "not that touch-typing-friendly" when they're literally the keys that are always under your fingers when touch typing?

Bro be using two mice with a screen keyboard.

jkl; are (on QWERTY keyboards). hjkl are not.

Idk, I get what you mean but I'd personally rather not use my pinky finger for navigation, sounds really uncomfortable.

hjkl AND the cursor keys equally suck for moving the cursor because they only move by one line or by one character.

jjjllllljjh is just as bad as <Down><Down><Down><Right><Right><Right><Right><Right><Down><Down><Left>. There are much better ways to move around and touch-typists and non-touch-typists would be better off learning them instead of obsessing over hjkl: :help motion.txt.

I think the reason to use and teach those keys first, is that they can be used in all the motions aswell. The arrow keys can´t and thus do not really make much sense in a vi context.

The arrow keys can be used as motions for operators in VIM. Try them. This is also true for nvi.

Ah, that's interesting, i had no idea. Thanks. :D

Pretty cool game, thanks!

Two suggestions that came to my mind while playing: Would be pretty neat to also been able to navigate the town map with vi bindings and it would also be nice to been able to undo the last keystroke with 'u'.

Appreciate the suggestions, I’ll open up the letters so undo works on all the levels, and will look into the navigation (really like that idea)

I visited on an iPhone, I wasn’t expecting the game to work, but there’s an on screen keyboard you can toggle which works great. Greatly appreciated.

Fun and helpful little game, thank you! I did find the last world to be a big jump in difficulty, I don't know if there's a better way to explain it or if it's just the nature of the material. Incidentally I got 1 over par on both "Record a routine" and "The full routine", do you know what sequences would be most efficient for those levels?

I really like this but feels like it does not really work on a Swedish keyboard layout (macOS), cannot input '$'. Tried both Alt+4 (how you actually input '$') which works in vim and Shift+4 (US layout).

Thank you, I’m planning to increase keyboard support. There’s also a few little bugs I need to iron out!

Legitimately helpful for helping me wrangle eVil mode on Doom Emacs. Thanks!

Fun! There are some combinations that don't seem to work though, e.g. "dG" and "dgg" do nothing.

Yeah, that’s on me. Sorry. I’m slowly introducing motions so they currently don’t all work in combination, but it makes sense so I’ll look into it

Every roguelike player has these bolted in. Just play Nethack/Slashem/DCSS/Cataclysm DDA:Bright Nights...

Nice job, I will play for sure!

I've learned vim with vim adventures years ago and always wondered for a free game to learn.

Vim Adventures was a huge inspiration for this!

For some reason I really want this on some retro hardware in ASCII art ... an excuse to get a C64 Ultimate?

Looks pretty neat but it doesn't seem to register the '^' key at all with a German keyboard.

Thank you, I’ll work on adding support for more keyboards :)

Can I go to the place where the Mu-Mu mate and the children still cry "Mine's a 99!"?

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